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COWBOYGRANDPA

The death of others does not solve our problems, they become our problems.
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Can one really accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and not be changed ??

Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:46 PM EST
politics, life, lies, changed, politicians-using-christs-name-with-no-shame
By cowboygrandpa
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In reading the articles and observing the things said by the Republican candidates.  I have noticed that most of them call themselves Christians.  Now far be it from me to say they are not Christians,  but where is the proof or the fruit as Jesus Christ said there would be ??  Can we examine some things that Jesus Christ said would prove one has become one of His.

Matthew 5:13-16

13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. 14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

 So how do these so called Christians measure up against these passages.  Would anybody call these people the salt of the earth ?? How about a light by which we are shown the goodness of Jesus Christ and glorify God in heaven through their works ??

Matthew 5:17-20

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Do they still want to govern us by the Law of the Old Testament, or do they honor what God says and know that Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law.  That He did not change the Law but has become the Law by which we are judged.  In Him is salvation and mercy, by the Law, without Him is death and condemnation brought about by our refusal of Him.  Do they exhibit the love and mercy of Christ and the desire to bring others to Him with His Love  ??  Or do they swing the hammer of the Law down and try to make everyone conform to a law they themselves cannot uphold ??

Matthew 5:43-48

43 "You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Have they shown any love for those they say are their enemies ??  What love have they shown for the less fortunate ??  What love have they shown for those who do not agree with them politically ??  How have they shown that they try to help those who may need the help of the government they are supposed to run ??  Do they understand the concept of God being the Creator and them being the created ??  Have they gotten the message that God does indeed love everyone of us ??

Matthew 6:5-7

5 "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

How many of the candidates make a show of their prayers for all to see ??  Do they not understand that hypocrites are easily spotted by their supposed holiness ??

Matthew 6:24-27

24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

25 "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?

27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?

How many of the candidates support the wealthy while denying the poor and middle class the same consideration.  How many of them say the wealthy deserve more than the poor because they earned it, while denying the poor the opportunities to earn like the wealthy do ?? How many of them twist the laws to make the wealthy stay in power while keeping the poor looking for the handouts they rely upon because the work is not there ??   Do they know they are serving mammon while claiming to serve God ??

 

So I come down to the question of the Title of the story.  Can one really accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and not be changed ??

Do you think these candidates display the changed life, that is described by Jesus Christ, in His followers ??

I'd like your comments and thoughts, just please remember to voice your thoughts without attacking other posters.

These are questions that to me are a question of the fruit of the believers in Christ. 

Thank you for your participation. 

 

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cowboygrandpa

I'm tired of hearing candidates saying they are Christians when they display none of the fuits of being in Christ.

  • 6 votes
#1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:02 PM EST
Jack TX

You're really going to do this again?

Call into question the faith of people who happen do disagree with you politically??

Got a log in your eye??

  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:06 PM EST
cowboygrandpa

Jack TX:

Jack, I could care less where they stand politically, honestly !! My problem with these people are that they run for an office using the lie that God has called them to so !!!

If they claim to be of Christ shouldn't there be some fruit of Him in their lives ?? Such as compassion for the less fortunates ?? Or the understanding of His way ?? Or being beyond question in their lives as far as greed, personal gain from using His Name, waging politics above Him, ... ??

That is all I ask Jack.

The log is not in my eye but is in the eyes of those who would encourage these liars to continue to be proved as less than honorable and more than dishonest in their stated beliefs.

If they want to say that God has called on them to run they have opened the door to all the questions about their beliefs, and how they manifest their Christianity!!!

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:08 PM EST
SCTexan

My problem with these people are that they run for an office using the lie that God has called them to so

Can you prove they were not called? Some religious folks are literal, I'd bet most aren't. If, living your life as best you understand Gods leadership of your life, you find you are in a spot to run for President, wouldn't that be God's calling. Maybe "He" did, maybe they are misreading the signs.

If they claim to be of Christ shouldn't there be some fruit of Him in their lives ?? Such as compassion for the less fortunates ?? Or the understanding of His way ?? Or being beyond question in their lives as far as greed, personal gain from using His Name, waging politics above Him, ... ??

The beauty of religion is just as God gives us free will, there are also many valid ways to interpret the guidance offered by the bible. Many of us believe the best way to witness is to be a good person and maintain your personal commitment. Also, doesn't the bible say, paraphrased, teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish? So who's to say which program is best? The bottom line than many on the extreme sides refuse to see, is that we have most of the same goals, we just have a different philosophy on how to get there.

    #1.3 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:17 AM EST
    Jack TX

    Jack, I could care less where they stand politically, honestly !! My problem with these people are that they run for an office using the lie that God has called them to so !!!

    As we've discussed before...at length...it is not your place or mine to judge them. God is pretty clear about that.

    As a Christian, let me ask you...would you ever consider running for office if you did not feel led to do so? I suspect not. I know I wouldn't. Why then, do you assume these people are any different?

    You've written 6 different articles on Newsvine devoted solely or primarily to declaring that people not like you are not Christian...or at least less Christian than you.

    If you don't see that for what it is....and if you think the Lord wants you running around declaring who is and isn't fit for His kingdom....then I pray you come to understand how far the grace of Jesus Christ actually goes. (Hint...it's in the 103rd Psalm.)

    • 1 vote
    #1.4 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:22 AM EST
    cowboygrandpa

    SCTexan, Jack TX:

    Have you read about the false prophets and how a true prophet of God is shown ?? Do you remember when President Bush said "God" called Him to invade Iraq ?? Hmmmmmm ??? How did that turn out for us ?? It pretty much proved Bush to be a liar in most peoples eyes. But hey he said he was a Christian.

    Now again, if you want to bring your faith up as the reason you are running for something I'm going to question youir credentials!!! If you say that God called you to run then you'd better win or else your claim is that God wanted you to be exposed for what you are.

    You've written 6 different articles on Newsvine devoted solely or primarily to declaring that people not like you are not Christian...or at least less Christian than you.

    I written at least six different articles on Newsvine questioning the behavior of some who call themselves Christians, yet allow their behaviors to show they are questionable at the best. If my questioning the behavior of those who claim to be my brothers and sisters in Christ seems wrong to you. I would ask you why is it wrong to question one whose behaviors in the public view cast such demeaning representation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ ??

    If your pastor said God called him to do something and in doing so he was mis representing Christ would you question him or just allow him to dirty the Name of Christ ?? I'm not saying to stop him, but question him with passages and ask where he is getting his leading from ??

    Not so that you would seem better than him, but so people would not be led astray by his behaviors!!

    If you really think I do these articles for my own gain, what have I gained ?? The ill will of the right leaning Christians, the ridicule of those who don't believe at all, the loss of my time that I put into these articles while making no profit financially from them, what do I gain ??

    The only gain I receive is that I'm doing what He is calling me to do. I'm asking what is being shown by these candidates that they claim God has called them to be in the running for the Presidency!!!

    If you don't like it, I can accept that. If it was a Democrat I would do the same. I would ask why they are saying that if there is no fruit in their lives to show it.

    • 3 votes
    #1.5 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:01 PM EST
    rescue dogs62

    SC Texan

    Also, doesn't the bible say, paraphrased, teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish?

    No it doesn't.

    Christ said, to paraphrase, when you have fed the hungry, when you have clothed the naked, when you have visited the ill and those in prison, you have done it unto Me.

    Jesus fed them, he didn't teach them to fish.

    While I believe the idea of your quote is valid, when we have people in our country starving, without shelter, without jobs or medical care something is wrong. When 18% of our infants and young children who show up in emergency rooms, because it the only access to medical care they have, are suffering from either hunger or malnutrition. 18%!!!!!. Our priorities are a mess, and when those who profess to be Christians want to feed our military industrial complex, rather than our children.....some is very wrong.

    • 5 votes
    #1.6 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:34 PM EST
    SCTexan

    What if God has called them to run so that they can grow from the experience and the interactions with others?

    I have one rule about Christianity and professed Christians (and political people); if someone believes they have all the right answers, you better stay away from them, they tend to be the most wrong.

    • 1 vote
    #1.7 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:35 PM EST
    cowboygrandpa

    #1.7:

    I also have a rule. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and has baby ducks, swims like a duck, and hangs out with other ducks, there is a a good probability it is a duck.

    If it doesn't, there is a good probability it is not a duck. Oh and don't say male ducks don't have babies. Ya get the picture. ;~));~))

    • 3 votes
    #1.8 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:56 PM EST
    Moby's ManCave

    rescue dogs62

    Christ said, to paraphrase, when you have fed the hungry, when you have clothed the naked, when you have visited the ill and those in prison, you have done it unto Me.

    The above is correct.

    I think "man" came up with "give a man a fish and he eats for a day"… then something like "teach a man to fish and he sits in a boat all day and drinks beer." :)

    • 3 votes
    #1.9 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:00 PM EST
    Jack TX

    Have you read about the false prophets and how a true prophet of God is shown ??

    Yeah. Usually a great sign of a false prophet is that he's quick to declare who is and isn't a believer. Ironic, huh?

    Do you remember when President Bush said "God" called Him to invade Iraq ?? Hmmmmmm ??? How did that turn out for us ?? It pretty much proved Bush to be a liar in most peoples eyes. But hey he said he was a Christian.

    Riiiight. Because their isn't any possible, conceivable, remote, distant possibility he was just wrong, was there? No....I'm sorry...I forgot....you're a liberal....people can't just be wrong...they have to be evil.

    Now again, if you want to bring your faith up as the reason you are running for something I'm going to question youir credentials!!! If you say that God called you to run then you'd better win or else your claim is that God wanted you to be exposed for what you are.

    Wow. Just wow. Out of curiosity, have you been a Christian long? Do you study the Bible regularly? How then, do you reconcile this bizarre idea you have that following God's call somehow results in earthly success. I'm trying to think off hand of biblical figures who would agree with this. After David and Solomon, the list is pretty short.

    How do you know God didn't call Rick Perry to run for office because He wanted to teach him a little humility? How do you know He didn't call Herman Cain to run because along the campaign trail he was going to inspire someone he came across in a way that has nothing to do with you, me or the presidency? There is an endless list of possible ways God could be at work in all of this that are totally unrelated to your narrow vision. God works like that. He doesn't ask you or me...because we're not God.

    I written at least six different articles on Newsvine questioning the behavior of some who call themselves Christians, yet allow their behaviors to show they are questionable at the best.

    allow their behaviors to show they are questionable at best.....

    Oh, yeah...like David. You remember him, the adulterous murdering elitist. Or Moses...another murderer. How about Gideon the Coward? Abram the Liar? Peter the Betrayer? Paul the Torturer?

    You're right. God doesn't use questionable people.

    If my questioning the behavior of those who claim to be my brothers and sisters in Christ seems wrong to you. I would ask you why is it wrong to question one whose behaviors in the public view cast such demeaning representation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ ??

    Sorry. I don't buy it for a minute. If that were the case I'd see an article about Fred Phelps or that Koran burning idiot in Florida.

    If you really think I do these articles for my own gain, what have I gained ??

    You don't like conservatives, and you love the idea that God agrees with you instead of them.

    If it was a Democrat I would do the same. I would ask why they are saying that if there is no fruit in their lives to show it

    Don't be absurd. No you wouldn't. As we've discussed and you've repeatedly declared, your definition of "fruit" begins with agreement with your liberal ideology. I really don't understand how you don't see that about yourself.

      #1.10 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:59 AM EST
      cowboygrandpa

      Jack TX:

      You don't like conservatives, and you love the idea that God agrees with you instead of them.

      I don't like people who say they are conservatives, but are only conservative because it is for their benefit. They think being a conservative means they are closer to God. That is laughable to me. That is why I continue to post these articles. They still don't get that Jesus Christ is not a liberal or a conservative. He is the Son of God, perfect and in no need of politicians, or political religion.

      As far as God agreeing with me ?? Are you being a smart aleck or what ?? He is God it is me who agrees with Him, not Him who agrees with me. Maybe that is the problem with some conservatives they think God agrees with them instead of them agreeing with God !!

      Sorry. I don't buy it for a minute. If that were the case I'd see an article about Fred Phelps or that Koran burning idiot in Florida.

      What they are not conservatives ?? The last time I checked they were very conservative. But why would I bother to post about them, everyone already knows they are idiots, except the idiots who follow them.

      Don't be absurd. No you wouldn't. As we've discussed and you've repeatedly declared, your definition of "fruit" begins with agreement with your liberal ideology. I really don't understand how you don't see that about yourself.

      So the verses in the Bible are liberal ideology ?? Because the fruit I speak of is from the Bible, not my personal ideas. I guess I don't see that about myself because I follow the verses in the Bible, do you ?? Not the law as it was given to Moses, because we are not under the Mosaic law, we are living in the Grace of God through Jesus Christ. Legalistic behavior only destroys the grace as it trys t9o add works in order to be worthy.

      I can't see why you don't see that ??

      allow their behaviors to show they are questionable at best.....

      Oh, yeah...like David. You remember him, the adulterous murdering elitist. Or Moses...another murderer. How about Gideon the Coward? Abram the Liar? Peter the Betrayer? Paul the Torturer?

      You're right. God doesn't use questionable people.

      So are you trying equate the GOP/TP candidates to those people in the Bible ?? Because I think you would be hard pressed to find the qualities those saints had, in the candidates of the GOP/TP. Ya know why don't they just say what it is they are instead of lying. They are a bunch of guys trying to reap where they didn't sow. Now you personally, I have a feeling you may be a pretty good guy. A conservative, but still a decent guy who is concerned with the lives of others. The candidates I don't see it.

      • 3 votes
      #1.11 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:26 AM EST
      Jack TX

      I don't like people who say they are conservatives, but are only conservative because it is for their benefit.

      Again and again...why do you believe you know what's on the hearts of people you've only ever seen on TV? Why do you believe you know what motivates other people to be conservative or liberal?? Why do you ignore the liberals who are only liberal for their own benefit?

      So the verses in the Bible are liberal ideology ?? Because the fruit I speak of is from the Bible, not my personal ideas.

      What I see is you trying to connect your interpretation of the Bible to a person's political beliefs. Such connections fall apart on a thousand levels. We've been down that road before. We can do it again, if you've forgotten.

      So are you trying equate the GOP/TP candidates to those people in the Bible ??

      Not really. We don't have any candidates in either party as bad as this lot.

      • Moses was a convicted murderer when God called him to lead Israel.
      • David used his power to commit adultery and murder before he became "a man after God's own heart."
      • Gideon was such an epic coward that God had to drag him kicking and screaming the whole way.
      • Abram disavowed his own wife before God called him to found a nation.
      • Peter committed assault with a deadly weapon and then denied Christ three times before he became the rock upon which God built his Church.
      • Paul committed acts of torture that made waterboarding look like a tickle before God called him to spread the Gospel.

      God has used some very, very questionable people over the years. Indeed he seems to prefer them. The building block that is rejected becomes the cornerstone, remember?? There are dozens more examples in the Bible, if you look.

      Point here is, we can't begin to judge what God has planned for someone. We don't see it clearly.

      They think being a conservative means they are closer to God. That is laughable to me. That is why I continue to post these articles.

      Ahhhh. Now we come to agreement. Let's note the date. ;) There are empty headed morons out there who declare that. They are as wrong as they can be. Don't you think it is important that you avoid the appearance of being the liberal version of that?

      Ya know why don't they just say what it is they are instead of lying.

      Why doesn't a 6 month old just use the toilet instead of a diaper? They're politicians. It's what they do. They pander to people they hope to get money and votes from. Why is it only the conservative ones that bother you? Do you really believe Barney Frank or Nancy Pelosi or Barack Obama are any different from their republican counterparts?? They just pander to different groups, that's all.

      I have a feeling you may be a pretty good guy. A conservative, but still a decent guy who is concerned with the lives of others. The candidates I don't see it.

      Thanks. You as well. As for the candidates, I'm curious as to how you see it in any politician.

      • 3 votes
      #1.12 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:55 PM EST
      cowboygrandpa

      JackTX:

      As for the candidates, I'm curious as to how you see it in any politician.

      Who said I did ?? I hold my nose and vote for the one I find to be the least offensive of the bunch, and that is only by mere degrees. There is not a candidate out there since Jimmy Carter, that to me truly represents what a Christian is and puts it to work as he did and does.

      And I'm not saying he did a great job in the WhiteHouse, because he was so much of a Christian that both parties were against him, in my humble opinion.

      • 2 votes
      #1.13 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:07 PM EST
      Jack TX

      Who said I did ?? I hold my nose and vote for the one I find to be the least offensive of the bunch, and that is only by mere degrees.

      Well then, we seem to agree more than I may have suspected.

      At this stage I'm just voting for the people I think have the least chance of actually screwing things up worse.

      • 1 vote
      #1.14 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:12 PM EST
      rescue dogs62
      • Moses was a convicted murderer when God called him to lead Israel.
      • David used his power to commit adultery and murder before he became "a man after God's own heart."
      • Gideon was such an epic coward that God had to drag him kicking and screaming the whole way.
      • Abram disavowed his own wife before God called him to found a nation.
      • Peter committed assault with a deadly weapon and then denied Christ three times before he became the rock upon which God built his Church.
      • Paul committed acts of torture that made waterboarding look like a tickle before God called him to spread the Gospel.

      Each of those recognized their sin, and repented. David threw himself before God on the threshing room floor.

      Do you believe that God would have called David a man after His own heart, if he had continued in adultery and promoted it as a way of life. David still paid an enormous price for his sin.

      • 1 vote
      #1.15 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:17 PM EST
      PCMan-615609

      I don't like people who say they are conservatives, but are only conservative because it is for their benefit. They think being a conservative means they are closer to God. That is laughable to me. That is why I continue to post these articles. They still don't get that Jesus Christ is not a liberal or a conservative. He is the Son of God, perfect and in no need of politicians, or political religion.

      Grandpa

      Could you please explain how you can support a Party that not only condones but, promotes abortion?....... I cannot imagine God as receptive to such actions.......and then please elaborate on your Party's stand regarding homosexuality, if you would.....!!!

      • 2 votes
      #1.16 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:22 PM EST
      Jack TX

      Each of those recognized their sin, and repented. David threw himself before God on the threshing room floor.

      But not before God called them anyway. That's the point. God sees what we can become. We only see what we are.

        #1.17 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:21 PM EST
        cowboygrandpa

        PCMan:

        I don't condone abortion, nor do I encourage it. In fact most Democrats I know aren't for abortion they are for the choice being up to the individual. That is after all what God teaches us, is that each of us is responsible for their actions. We can't make others live as we want them to and call it free will can we ??

        As far as homosexuality why do so many conservatives focus on that and not on adultery or fornication ?? I look at all of them the same, the person is living outside of the way God intended us to live. So since I have been both a fornicator and an adulterer at one time, I have compassion for them. Jesus Christ didn't say to hate them, He said to love them but to hate the sin. I hate what the sin does because it is deceptive, it is pleasurable for a time but then it is like any other forbidden pleasure there is a cost involved.

        Now please elaborate on why you focus on those things and not the greed or cold hearted control the conservatives seem to want to bring upon everyone to make them live as they see fit ??

        • 2 votes
        #1.18 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:57 AM EST
        PCMan-615609

        Now please elaborate on why you focus on those things and not the greed or cold hearted control the conservatives seem to want to bring upon everyone to make them live as they see fit ??

        I do not focus on these things……However, both are issues that are clearly subjects of debate……Other than that there is nothing to elaborate on here………I completely disagree with your perception of conservatives....... I would also advise that you not settle with your current process of gaining information and strive to learn the compete truth. You cannot judge every member of a group by the actions of a few………but I am sure you are aware of that….!!!

        • 2 votes
        #1.19 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:29 PM EST
        SCTexan

        Now please elaborate on why you focus on those things and not the greed or cold hearted control the conservatives seem to want to bring upon everyone to make them live as they see fit ??

        I'd like to see the documentation that those are only conservative traits.

        • 1 vote
        #1.20 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:58 PM EST
        Reply
        hugh b

        I'm just tired of Christianity. It is evil.

        • 5 votes
        Reply#2 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:13 PM EST
        cowboygrandpa

        hugh b:

        I'm just tired of Christianity. It is evil.

        Well you have your right to believe that. I'm tired of the "christians" who make Christianity seem evil. They base their lives on the things of this world, when Christ is not of this world He is the Creator of this world.

        • 4 votes
        #2.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:17 PM EST
        bondibox

        I'm reminded of George W. Bush who callously mocked Karla Faye Tucker, saying "please don't kill me."

        A true "Christian" wouldn't take so much pleasure in meting out that punishment, whether or not you believe she should have been put to death or a punishment less severe,

        Unfortunately the mindset that seems to have crept into modern Christianity is Eminence, the feeling of being superior to another. Sure there's a heapload of self-righteousness in it, but most of all I see religion used as a lever to elevate oneself, the current crop of candidates being no exception.

        • 3 votes
        #2.2 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:12 PM EST
        hugh b

        well God created this world, Jesus the son of God, does not become god and creator just because it suits some scam.

        My God speaks to me, through me, and with me. He has told me many times to live my live with patience, compassion, hope, and love.

        To avoid those that believe they can deliver his/her words to me, better than he can.

        He has also shown me how weak, ugly, cowardly men have corrupted religion to justify so much evil and hatred.

        Religion is satan's trojan horse, Christianity is part of the destruction of this world.

        • 1 vote
        #2.3 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:15 PM EST
        cowboygrandpa

        hugh b:

        Jesus spoke the world in to being. He is the Word of God.

        • 2 votes
        #2.4 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:42 AM EST
        hugh b

        WTF does spoke the world into being mean? What a bunch of crap.

        Word of god, son of god, Who the hell is Buddha, Krishna, and so many others?

        Jesus and God tell me all the time to ignore Christians. They are sick of what has been done in their names.

        • 1 vote
        #2.5 - Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:10 PM EST
        cowboygrandpa

        hugh b:

        Shaking the dust of your comment from my feet.

        • 1 vote
        #2.6 - Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:59 AM EST
        Reply
        clatz

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman

        Christianity is defined by it's followers, not it's texts. That might sound a little odd, but the reality is that the manual (the Bible) hasn't changed a jot and yet how Christianity is practiced by it's followers has changed across time and across the globe.

        If the Bible was a driving code, the road ways would be carnage as people "interpret" their way from A to B. Some people woudl drive on the left, some the right. Some would give way, others would think that heresy.

        • 4 votes
        Reply#3 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:07 PM EST
        cowboygrandpa

        #3.

        clatz:

        Christianity is defined by Jesus Christ as it is His way of life.

        The problem is that so many want to be thought of as Christ like they say they are Christians when they don't even accept who Christ is, let alone how He called us to live in Him.

        Now I know the line that there is no true Christian. Jesus Christ gave us ways that we know. The lies by those who want to have people believe there is no true Christian is to discourage those who accept Christ from allowing Him to change them into His disciple.

        Just the way I see it.

        • 4 votes
        #3.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:17 PM EST
        clatz

        Christianity is defined by Jesus Christ as it is His way of life.

        It's all very well saying that, but that doesn't address the crux of the matter, all you have to go by is the Bible to tell you who Christ was, and as a guide it couldn't be harder to follow.

        There cannot be a clear picture of what it is to be a Christian simply because there has never been any consistency in how Christians practice their religion. Today there are thousands of sects of Christianity all with their (admittedly slightly) different take on the religion.

        Take any given moral question, throw it at Christianty of today and yesteryear and you will get a different answer:

        • Can genocide ever be justified?
        • Is slavery ok?
        • Is it ok to beat your wife?
        • Is ok to have more than one wife?
        • Should women be able to wear trousers?
        • Can torture be justified?
        • Should we have the death penalty?
        • Is it right for people of mixed races to marry?
        • Are all races equal?

        The problem is that so many want to be thought of as Christ like they say they are Christians when they don't even accept who Christ is, let alone how He called us to live in Him.

        How would the thousands of Christian sects today react to that? I imagine they all accept who Christ is, they just have a different interpretation of who he is than you do. Some see him as a warrior, some see him as a man of peace and that's the problem.

        I would like to see a guide on exactly how the Bible should be followed, what is allegory, what is fact, what is the meaning of this or that. What are hard and fast rules, what seemingly important rules can now be ignored. What do you think the chances of a guide like that ever being agreed upon by Christians? Zero would be my guess.

        • 1 vote
        #3.2 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:29 AM EST
        cowboygrandpa

        clatz:

        When I read the Bible I'm led by the Spirit. I go to church and hear the pastor speak, I reread the passages, I check with other passages in The Bible and I compare what Christ said to what is being said.

        Now I don't claim to have even half of the answers you seek. But I know who does and that is God.

        In answer to your bullet points. In the order they are asked.

        No

        No

        No

        No

        Yes

        No

        Yes

        Yes

        Yes

        That is the way I understand it to be.

        But that is not what makes us acceptable in Christ. It is asking Him for and receiving His forgiveness and turning from the sins while allowing Him to change us as He will. We become a new Creation in Him. If we are not, how then can we say we are of Him for He is the new and everlasting life, and we are dead to the flesh and reborn of the Spirit.

        It is said in the Bible. Jesus Christ explained it to Nicodemus.

        That is my understanding of it, and I will believe Christ as it is He who gives the Salvation and not man.

        • 2 votes
        #3.3 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:41 AM EST
        clatz

        Thanks cowboygrandpa,

        In any given point in time between 500 - 1900 AD your answers would have got you in serious hot water with many of your Christian brothers ... well hot water, or fire ... you get the point ( probably rectally :-) ).

        But that is not what makes us acceptable in Christ. It is asking Him for and receiving His forgiveness and turning from the sins while allowing Him to change us as He will. We become a new Creation in Him. If we are not, how then can we say we are of Him for He is the new and everlasting life, and we are dead to the flesh and reborn of the Spirit.

        I don't know the answer to that. All I can say is that Christians have never agreed on what exactly it means to be Christian so although I appreciate your attempt to define what it means to you, I know other Christians would not agree.

        • 1 vote
        #3.4 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:34 PM EST
        Kinkomaster

        clatz, I love your approach to this topic. You are walking a very difficult path because the fact that each christian may interpret what they read and hear differently just doesn't make sense to them. They always fall back on what hey-zeus does and think that what he says and does can mean a single thing.

        Take gramps being ok with torture. I have a feeling that he is in the minority in that respect with the other christians around him. Inflicting pain and suffering on another person when hey-zeus told them to "love thy neighbor" and "turn the other cheek so it may be struck". Hey-zeus pushed being passive and a victim to being the aggressor and hurting people, but as I said... it is interpretation.

        • 1 vote
        #3.5 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:54 PM EST
        cowboygrandpa

        Kinkomaster:

        I've never ben okay with torture. Ya better learn how to count before ya claim that about me !!! Torture was number six and at number six I have a No.

        But hey continue on with your rant, you've been shown to be head hunting.

        • 2 votes
        #3.6 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:05 PM EST
        cowboygrandpa

        clatz:

        #2.4 Thanks.

        Hence the Title. I truly believe one cannot accept Christ without being changed.

        I'm well aware that other Christians would not agree. On minor points that doesn't matter much, I don't major in the minors. On the major points, I would have to say that what Christ said and what He did are the most important things we can follow.

        • 3 votes
        #3.7 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:11 PM EST
        Kinkomaster

        Sorry, gramps... you're ok with the death penalty. Do you think that is better than condoning torture? Don't hurt them... just kill them. Nice "christian" morals. I can see all the examples of hey-zeus killing off people in the bible. Those commandments don't mean a lot to you, do they?

        Head hunting? Bringing up how christians interpret the bible differently is head hunting? Interesting...

          #3.8 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:41 PM EST
          cowboygrandpa

          Kinkomaster:

          Yep !!! I'm okay with the death penalty.

          If you lie in wait for a person to murder them for your financial gain, you should die for it, after you've ben tried and found guilty. If you rape a child you should die for it, you've killed the child anyway, what is left is the pain they have to endure. Ya shouldn't be left alive with the chance to doit again. You can be forgiven and still get to heaven but ya still pay with your flesh here on earth.

          • 2 votes
          #3.9 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:46 PM EST
          Kinkomaster

          Ok, gramps, don't get me wrong... I am fully for the death penalty! I believe that the predators that prowl amongst us need to be put down instead of just held until they can do it again. The problem with our views is... yours isn't very christian. I think a lot of christians would have a problem with you becoming another person's judge and jury... basically, doing your god's job. I don't really see hey-zeus teaching that or embracing that for any of his followers. If he did... please share it with me... I must have missed it.

          Actually, come to think about it, who are you to answer clatz's questions in the first place? You are a FOLLOWER in a religion. If the leaders of your sect decide that torture is a good thing, you had better believe it also. Otherwise, you will need a lot of sunscreen for where they will banish you to after labeling you a heretic. That's the thing about church rules, there isn't a whole lot of interpretation. Do what they say... or else.

            #3.10 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:39 PM EST
            Reply
            rescue dogs62

            No, in answer to your question, cowboy, I don't think one can accept Christ as Savior and not have their lives changed. Are we still sinners, absolutely, do I fall short every single day, absolutely....sometimes "shorter than others" ;^}. Am the same person I was before...no.

            • 6 votes
            Reply#4 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:27 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            rescue dogs62:

            My friend, I knew you would know the answer. Thank you my friend.

            I too fall short everyday, and everyday there is the forgiveness. But the major things are becoming less of a temptation to me, and the reality of having a closer walk with Him becomes clearer daily.

            (((( rescue dogs))))

            • 5 votes
            #4.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:33 PM EST
            Kathleen McKenzie

            Anyone can get up in front of a congregation and say words, then walk away and live unchanged. From the behaviors I see, it appears tens of thousands do exactly that. Others sit in church and are spoon-fed a doctrine or theology that is shockingly unChrist-like, and they accept the whole thing without question.

            I think a better question might be, "Has your understanding of what is spiritual changed over the years?" Because if it hasn't, then you're still a baby.

            • 4 votes
            #4.2 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:03 PM EST
            Moby's ManCave

            Agree with rescue dogs62, you are changed… you have to be changed, I believe, in order to do what's next, which is obedience in Christ. This is the big "hang-up" for so many. They say they are "saved" and have "accepted" Christ, but their lives don't "seem" to show it. And this is where I have some trouble with this, because as a Christian I have to "work" at the "obedience" thing daily… not to store treasures in heaven and all that, but b/c I love Christ… b/c I wish to do his will, but being human and being broken I fall daily. As for the others, who am I to say they aren't Christians when I am far from where I would hope to be as a Christian? I do know this though, I hope I am closest to the image of Christ just seconds before I take my last breath… progress, not perfection! :)

            • 3 votes
            #4.3 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:10 PM EST
            Reply
            KitKat51

            Grandpa, You've hit the nail soundly on it's head here.

            No one is going to come to a Christian salvation being dragged to it kicking and screaming. It is not something that can be coerced, mandated or legislated. It has to be desired, sought, found and accepted. Our founding fathers were smart enough to know that. They took very great care to ensure that the politics of this country would always be kept wholly separate from religion, any religion. They strictly prohibited the establishment of a state religion, any religion... including Christianity. They understood the danger to both the political process and to the faith of this country's people. It seems to me that many today, especially America's churches lack that wisdom.

            Anytime I see/hear someone wrapping themselves in an American Flag, waving a Bible around and quoting cherry picked scripture, I become immediately wary. When a politician chooses to claim God's favor in the pursuit of a personal agenda, I think a very dangerous line is being crossed and I think the questions has to be "Is this for God's glory?" If not, it is rotten (fruit) and evil and we should run from it (I do!) We are warned about these people and instructed to identify them by their fruit. Pretty simple, especially these days.

            • 4 votes
            Reply#5 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:33 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            KitKat51:

            Thank you for adding to the discussion.

            It is laughable to me that these politicians think they are leading people anywhere except down the broad path of destruction. :~(( :~((

            • 3 votes
            #5.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:38 PM EST
            willard

            You may find it laughable, but they are succeeding and Jesus is failing. Now, that I don't find funny. So, IMHO, use you words of wisdom to correct the injustice these folks have created rather than stand on the sidelines. which is what I think you're doing. Additionally, itis not just politicians but church leaders - baptists ministers of churches on every street corner in the south (and other areas too) that are spreading this nonsense.

              #5.2 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:27 PM EST
              KitKat51

              Jesus is not falling willard.

              He has already won.

              If I did not believe that, I would not be able to get out of my bed everyday. There'd simply be no point.

              He's got this.

              • 2 votes
              #5.3 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:50 AM EST
              Reply
              magnoliaave

              Here we go, again. Practicing and believing in one's religion is very personal. When any of the candidates said, "God told me to run", I take that with a grain of salt. This person may have prayed over the question, and, decided in the end to run since that is what he wanted to do in the first place. Politicians are liars! Having worked in politics for years, I was never more disheartened than when I learned that a judge I trusted and campaigned for was just like ALL of them.

              I am a Christian and have erred many times. Does that make me a hypocrite? Maybe in your eyes it does. Would I like to be without fault? Oh, Yes. My cup runeth over with thanks to the Almighty for each day. My faith has been tried many times, but not ever as much as when my dear sister died this year.

              These candidates' Christianity, I do not question at all. However, I do question "God told me to run".

              • 2 votes
              Reply#6 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:41 PM EST
              cowboygrandpa

              magnoliaave:

              When any of the candidates say God told me to run it opens the door for questioning them about their beliefs since they are ones putting it out there !!

              Politicians are liars!

              Exactly my point, so why should I believe that they are Christians when their fruit says other wise ??

              I am a Christian and have erred many times. Does that make me a hypocrite? Maybe in your eyes it does. Would I like to be without fault?

              It does not make you a hypocrite at all in my eyes. It makes you a person who admits to their mistakes. Just like I am. We will be without fault one day.

              My cup runeth over with thanks to the Almighty for each day. My faith has been tried many times, but not ever as much as when my dear sister died this year.

              I'm very sorry to hear of the death of your sister, please accept my heartfelt wishes of compassion, empathy, mercy and strength for you and yours.

              These candidates' Christianity, I do not question at all. However, I do question "God told me to run".

              This is where we differ. I cannot accept someone saying God told them to do something without it being proved by the things that happen. To nme they are being false prophets and using Gods' Name in vain for their gain, which imediately call into question their Christianity.

              Just the way I see it.

              • 4 votes
              #6.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:30 PM EST
              Reply
              Grisham

              If you take out the OT and limit Christianity to only what Jesus is found to say in the Bible, then I would agree with you. Whenever politics and religion mix, they create misery. That's the bottom line. And these politicians are catering to the Christians in the US. In a real sense, it's the moderates who are allowing these politicians to get away with it by being sympathetic to their cause, believing (wrongly I might add) that these twisted politicians are champions of their faith.

              If I were a Christian, I would consider them an enemy of my faith.

              Another thought provoking article, cowboygrandpa. Thanks for the read.

              • 6 votes
              Reply#7 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:58 PM EST
              magnoliaave

              Grisham....they are not an enemy of my faith! You said, "if I were a Christian", then, you must not be. So, not being a Christian you have no earthly idea on what or who to judge. And, being a Christian, I don't judge anyone! I leave judging to the Almighty!

              • 1 vote
              #7.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:11 PM EST
              Grisham

              So, not being a Christian you have no earthly idea on what or who to judge.

              I love when Christians say that non-Christians can't have an opinion about the wackiness they see going on with Christianity.

              I have an idea. That's exactly WHY I'm not a Christian.

              And, being a Christian, I don't judge anyone! I leave judging to the Almighty!

              I wish those religiously fueled politicians would take your advice. They might actually start passing policies that effect everyone and not just to satisfy their Christian morals. While people riot in the streets, they're busy worrying about whether homosexuals are abominations or not.

              • 5 votes
              #7.2 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:22 PM EST
              cowboygrandpa

              Grisham:

              Thank you for stopping in and adding your thoughts.

              I see you were told that your assessment meant nothing to one of the commentators. That is to bad. Because often it is those who are not in the church who see a lot of the misguided behaviors of those calling themselves Christians.

              I value your imput as being from one who is reasonable and can see things from perspectives others may not.

              I think some who are Christians have forgotten that the punishment for those who knew Christ and walked away from Him is worse than never knowing Him. I would welcome you as a Christian were you to come to Christ my friend.

              • 4 votes
              #7.3 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:47 PM EST
              Grisham

              I can't promise I'll ever come to Christ, but I'll send you a FR. I'd be honored if you'd accept.

              As for the title, I don't think anyone could take up any religion and be serious about it without it changing their lives.

              • 3 votes
              #7.4 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:06 PM EST
              cowboygrandpa

              Grisham:

              FR accepted humbly and gladly. :~)) :~))

              • 3 votes
              #7.5 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:09 PM EST
              magnoliaave

              Grisham....I never said you couldn't have an opinion. But, if one is not a Christian how can you judge who is a Christian or not? Why does a Christian believe? Why does one believe and another doesn't? How does Christianity affect one's life?

              If you were a Buddhist and I am not. How can I judge or understand what your beliefs are? I would say, I would NEVER be a Buddhist without having any knowledge whatsoever of what being a Buddhist is. And you would defend your fellow Buddhist and I would give an opinion of that based on Nothing.

              And, you are wrong, Grandpa, his opinion did mean something to me. He is on my friends' list, as well. We agree on many occasions, but not on this one. As I see it, Grisham is an honest person who speaks from his heart. I would never take offense to anything he says!

              I am not judging them one way or the other. That is between them and the Lord!

              • 1 vote
              #7.6 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:28 PM EST
              willard

              Great point Grishm -

              I too find the OT and all the reactions of 1st century christians to have dulled contemporary response to contemporary problems. You might add that the literal can not supersede the metaphorical value of the message.

              • 2 votes
              #7.7 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:31 PM EST
              Grisham

              But, if one is not a Christian how can you judge who is a Christian or not?

              I used to be a Christian. My parents are Christians. Most of my family are Christians. I've read the Bible several times. I've debated religion a lot - to say the least. I write articles about Christianity. I've read about various religions and their history.

              Why does a Christian believe?

              Depends on the Christian in question. Some believe because they think it will bring them political power, which I think cowboygrandpa is trying to illustrate in this article. Some had a personal experience. For some it brings peace. For many it's because they were raised in the faith. The possibilities are endless. However, most atheists in North America were probably Christians at some point because it's the predominant religion here. If we'd been born in Iran, we'd probably be discussing Islam and Sharia law right now.

              How does Christianity affect one's life?

              In several ways. Any belief or activity would change someones life. Religion of any kind is a huge life changer.

              If you were a Buddhist and I am not. How can I judge or understand what your beliefs are?

              Depends if you come to the discussion ignorant or not. Any topic that I write about, it's fairly safe to say that I've done a lot of research into it before I set finger to keyboard.

              He is on my friends' list, as well. We agree on many occasions, but not on this one.

              Yep. There's no law that says friends can't disagree. I'm weird. I like when people offer a different view. :)

              • 5 votes
              #7.8 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:47 PM EST
              bondibox

              The way I see it, there are two kinds of Christians

              • Those who live each day by the teachings of Christ, and
              • Those who use Christianity to justify a geopolitical agenda consisting of dominionism and war.

              And yeah, they are pretty much mutually exclusive.

              • 6 votes
              #7.9 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:06 AM EST
              Reply
              kim me

              I have met many religious people of all faiths. This gentleman is worth listening to. This is from an atheist.

              • 2 votes
              Reply#8 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:46 PM EST
              cowboygrandpa

              Thank you kim me.

              • 3 votes
              #8.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:48 PM EST
              Reply
              willard

              Gosh Grandpa - just look around you. A great deal of your *faithful* have falsely claimed salvation ( or being saved - whatever is the term de jour). christianity is a failing religion. Less and less Americans are christians - many more are spiritual. Look into PEW and Duke polls for starters. IMHO, when christians start talking Jesus and stop babbling on using Paul and Leviticus, they'll have accomplished much to get back on track.

              As you say, its personal.

              Now far be it from me to say they are not Christians, but where is the proof or the fruit as Jesus Christ said there would be ??

              This is where you and I depart. As a recovering christian, I find it unacceptable to acquiesce to the loudmouths like Buchanan, Robertson, Dobson, Reid et al and those that support their stupid view point. Until *real* christians stand up to them, they've won the battle. In my former denomination, there was a great battle of all the social issues. It was primarily led by one group whose paper is called the "Layman". It was your usual divisive cultural WASP rag - but I was most disappointed in the way the denomination handle these critters. As Lyle Schaler pointed out, the denomination lost members b/c the leaders did more to placate the pharisees then they did to make more normal folks feel at home.

              It is our job to call them out. Jesus isn't represented at all in the republican platform. These christians represent the Church of the Republican JesusTM" as was pointed out in a blog recently. This church makes a mockery of the gospels by making them the prosperity gospels. Claim Jesus as your *Savior* and you'll be rewarded great earthly treasure. To vote against women's health or equal wages or livable wages to name a few, makes a mockery of Jesus.

              So you can continue to acquiesce - but I will call them as I see it and it doesn't bother me to be censored by this blog in doing it. Being kind to pharisees is the worst form of politically correct.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#9 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:22 PM EST
              magnoliaave

              Recovering Christian? It seems to me that you had a problem with the denomination you were associated with rather than with Christ. I, too, had a problem with a particular Church I attended. But,never with my beliefs. It put me off in going to Church. Not anymore, however.

              • 1 vote
              #9.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:40 PM EST
              cowboygrandpa

              willard:

              I don't see myself as being soft on them at all. I'm looking for a changed life, one that shows they have come to Him and that they no longer think wealth, power and control are the reasons to strive for leadership.

              • 3 votes
              #9.2 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:16 PM EST
              Reply
              PCMan-615609

              Now far be it from me to say they are not Christians, but where is the proof or the fruit as Jesus Christ said there would be ?? Can we examine some things that Jesus Christ said would prove one has become one of His.....

              Cowboy……..with all due respect could you not ask the same questions regarding our current President..?? Does he not claim to be of the Christian faith….??? How does he fair with your presented qualifications….??

              • 1 vote
              Reply#10 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:49 PM EST
              cowboygrandpa

              PCMan:

              Yes, he does claim to be a Christian. Well he passed the health care law. He has tried to get work for Americans, he has repeatedly tried to get the economy going, he battled with the Republicans over extending unemployment for the unemployed, he has failed in some instances as well.

              The difference between he and the Republicans as I see it is that they keep bringing it up as if to say they are better than President Obama. Almost as to say he isn't a Christian and they are.

              • 4 votes
              #10.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:11 PM EST
              PCMan-615609

              Yes, he does claim to be a Christian. Well he passed the health care law. He has tried to get work for Americans, he has repeatedly tried to get the economy going, he battled with the Republicans over extending unemployment for the unemployed……

              What does any of this have to do with the premise of your article…..?? I feel you are dodging the question and that is a bit disappointing to say the least….!!!

              The difference between he and the Republicans as I see it is that they keep bringing it up as if to say they are better than President Obama. Almost as to say he isn't a Christian and they are.

              Are you projecting her a bit….?? I have not perceived this attitude from any of the candidates and not all even claim to be Christian….!!!

              • 2 votes
              #10.2 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:01 PM EST
              Reply
              TheyreAllCrooks

              YES!


              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3jgPsGQSdQ&feature=related

              Detroit ain't been saved yet! ( and I ain't from Detroit)

              Thank you Mr President!

              • 1 vote
              Reply#11 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:36 PM EST
              TheyreAllCrooks

              Detroit...change is coming!!!!!

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcAJK1cl_9Y&feature=related

              • 1 vote
              Reply#12 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:52 PM EST
              izzybar

              Politicians are liars!

              The vast majority of politicians are christian! Their supporters are mostly christian! What does that say about Christianity???

              • 1 vote
              Reply#13 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:20 PM EST
              TheyreAllCrooks

              All you crooks is strangers...now this is sho nuff gospel!!!!

              Herman, won't know 'bout this!

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSu6UtVImrQ&feature=relmfu

                Reply#14 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:15 PM EST
                Druswid

                I would say without a doubt that somebody could accept Christ and not be changed at all by it. How is this? Different people have different interpretations of the Bible, because all sorts of priests and ministers teach the Bible in a myriad of different ways, so everyone's perception is different. You have people who will use the old testament as justification for bigotry, because even though the new testament sets a different tone, the old testament is still part of the Bible. You've got a bunch of candidates running for president because they're saying that God told them to run. That may be so that they were told to run, but does their running mean they're actually supposed to win?

                Furthermore, since the only thing one officially has to do to be considered a Christian is to accept Christ, you're bound to have morally unscrupulous people thinking that they have some kind of divine right due to their acceptance of Christ; they seek to use religion as a bludgeoning tool to exert their will upon others who might not share the same views, all because of their supposed moral superiority. And, what's worse about that scenario is that if God is supposed to forgive if one honestly asks, will someone who repeatedly does terrible things be forgiven, and think they're still on the right track? As someone else said earlier, it is entirely possible for a religion to be represented by its followers, and if the most vocal followers are seen as unscrupulous people, that does no favors for the religion.

                To be completely honest, I don't have a problem with Christians or Christianity. I think the core message of love and respect is the most important thing to take away from it all, though I think that some who profess to be Christian have forgotten that, or learned the religion in some kind of way that didn't get the message across. In truth, I sometimes wrestle with the idea of religion; some days I feel that I want to experience it, and something greater than myself, and have prayed before on the subject, but other days I'm not even sure if God is there or hears. It's very hard to take things on blind faith, which is what Christianity requires. In the end, though... I think what happens when someone accepts Christ entirely depends on what kind of person said individual is.

                  Reply#15 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:20 PM EST
                  TheyreAllCrooks

                  I know Christ - but Christ, and politics are strangers...soon as these teafools figure that out...God will be pleased!

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS9cvxpMpCI&feature=related


                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwElG8p8W0o&feature=related

                  • 1 vote
                  #15.1 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:24 PM EST
                  Grisham

                  I would say without a doubt that somebody could accept Christ and not be changed at all by it. How is this?

                  I'd have to respectfully disagree with that statement. Every scenario you offered in your post would suggest change - no matter the interpretation. For good or bad, religion would change a great many things about you. From the way you view life, death, lifestyle and a host of other things.

                  • 6 votes
                  #15.2 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:31 PM EST
                  TheyreAllCrooks

                  At some point...it's gone rain...

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApjyAnt4-qE

                    #15.3 - Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:33 PM EST
                    Druswid

                    You may be right, Grisham, however, I suppose in my own mind I was thinking that there are people who have accepted Christ who yet remain as grasping, unscrupulous, or bigoted as they ever were before they accepted Christ, only by accepting Christ, they may believe that such behavior is thereby warranted, as they are supposed to have been forgiven. That may have been something I didn't particularly elaborate very well... but the discussion is always nice.

                    • 1 vote
                    #15.4 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:08 AM EST
                    Moby's ManCave

                    My understanding of Christianity is acceptance of Christ is made evident by a changed life. Acceptance is a process through obedience in Christ. Acceptance is not getting baptized or acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God.

                    A changed life precedes acceptance.

                    • 2 votes
                    #15.5 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:07 PM EST
                    Reply
                    Baron von Steuben

                    It takes a fundamental rejection of reason to dedicate ones life to a deity. No one can truly accept Jesus without accepting that fact.

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#16 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:59 AM EST
                    Carol -4571684

                    I believe God did call these candidates, other than Newt who was just thrown into the fire because. We are in the revelation of truth and God has all the power mongering and greed right out there on the republican stage for everyone to see I and choose.

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#17 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:59 PM EST
                    Druswid

                    That is an interesting way of looking at things, Carol... but then the question is, what if people choose wrong? Does that then become some sort of divine joke? Tragedy, perhaps? The very fact of the matter is that there are voters out there who support those candidates, and that's the really scary thing.

                      #17.1 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:05 PM EST
                      Carol -4571684

                      We create who we become. Free will is the major component.

                      • 1 vote
                      #17.2 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:21 PM EST
                      SCTexan

                      And hopefully we learn from all our experiences, maybe that was the true calling, not becoming president.

                      • 2 votes
                      #17.3 - Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:35 PM EST
                      Reply
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