Is History Repeating Its Self With Fascism On The Rise ??

Freedom is important.

Don't let the Fascism take control of us.

10 votes

#1 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:39 PM EST

to late there is the Protect IP act , SOPA, that bill that will allow military arrest of americans on american soil where they can hold you indefinedtly, the un calling for a global army and abloshing national armies, and calling for a world gov

1 vote

#1.1 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:22 PM EST

GaryColumbus

They aren't called ultra-conservative neoNazicons for nothing. Freedom in their minds is only supposed to extend to only their church going, gun toting evangelicals. That's a Republican for you. Fair and balanced unless it's something against what FOX, Pat Robertson and the NRA says is unwholesome. Not to mention what the Westboro Southern Baptists and altar-boy raping Catholics would have to say.

Don't allow, taxes, Social Security, consumer advocacy or regulations controlling banks, oil and big industry in general but go after their guns or allow open study of religion in public schools and you'll see a completely different attitude towards Freedom of Choice. Not too mention a woman who has been raped having the Freedom of Choice.

Allow religion in school and when little Sarah comes home and asks her mother why her friend little Bachi prays on a rug and you'll have the evangelicals up in arms screaming for a holy war.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness is Justice for All not Just Us.

5 votes

#1.2 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:35 PM EST

nazis you mean the people who endorsed the OWS and where socialist

#1.3 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:38 PM EST

GaryColumbus

OWS didn't have any KKK marching with them like the Tea Party did. I don't believe GObPsupporters knows just who they are supposedly referring too? But isn't that an ultra-conservative's natural knee-jerk reaction and smoke screen spin response?

3 votes

#1.4 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:45 PM EST

silverhawk63

Prof that real kkk memebers marched with tea party? OWS did have the American Communist Party come out in Chicago long with some skin heads.

3 votes

#1.5 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:51 PM EST

actually there was a KKK member that endorsed the OWS and a little smoke my ass here trowards the end of this article http://www.newsvine.com/_nv/publish/article?contentId=9355216 a picture of a nazi at the OWS vs what evidence do you have the KKK at the Tea party oh yeah NONE

1 vote

#1.6 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:52 PM EST

GaryColumbusDeleted

Interesting the change in the voting. I see we have a bunch of poll voters who don't wish to weigh in with comments.

That is alright. The poll shows what I thought it would.

Interesting how many people will vote for Fascism even if it were to hurt them and their families. Because they think liberals who are voting for liberty for all people must be stopped.

If this is not a small scale picture of what "conservatives" believe now a days, well it is a prety good indication.

8 votes

#1.8 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:17 PM EST

Dog_BlueDeleted

Dog_Blue:

#1.9 Deleted

Do not attack the person making the comment.

If you disagree that is fine. Say so in a way that does not infer that someone is ultratrash.

4 votes

#1.10 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:48 PM EST

Gary Columbus:

#1.7

Do not infer that all TPer's are all equal with the KKK. It is okay to disagree but do not infer that all are the same.

Comment deleted.

3 votes

#1.11 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:52 PM EST

Dog_Blue

Cowboygrandps;

That term was used by the poster I was responding too in the previous post. Apply your censoring uniformly as no one was attacked. You appear more then happy to delete what you disagree with. In fact this same style has been used on me in more then once and I have never seen it reported.

1 vote

#1.12 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:55 PM EST

I hate to delete comments. I truly believe in free spech.

But attacks on fellow Viners is a no no.

2 votes

#1.13 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:56 PM EST

Dog_Blue:

The comment was deleted right after yours. I started from the bottom up that time.

2 votes

#1.14 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:58 PM EST

izzybar

Proof that real kkk memebers marched with tea party?

No need for proof. They were identified as kkk and embraced by the Tea party. Did the Tea party check for proof? Did they care?

3 votes

#1.15 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:05 PM EST

Dog_Blue

I also find it interesting that you twisted my post out of context in your comment on deletion. I can see you have no plans on being "fair and balanced" in your actions. As I noted before, I did not originate the ter, I borrowed from the post where it did originate.

1 vote

#1.16 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:25 PM EST

D B:

#1.16
If you have a problem with the decision I made go and report it and see if they will restore it.

I will not, just as I will not restore the other comment.

As far as fair and balanced. I'm as far from the Faux News persuasion as I can be. Propaganda is just a tool for political hacks to get their hands in the pockets of those they try to deflect from the truth.

4 votes

#1.17 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:31 PM EST

cowboygrandpa~

While at first glance it may seem that the political / economic circumstances as they exist today in the US appear similar to those in Europe following WWI that gave rise to Fascism, in fact there was one other factor that contributed mightily to the rise of Hitler and Mussolini. Both Germany and Italy were, at the beginning of the twentieth century, ruled by Monarchies. This is important to note as monarchies are by their inherent political structure essentially ‘politically paternal’ structures. That is to say at this period in Europe, as in many part of the world today, state political power reflected the way power in a family was administered. The king ruled over his kingdom and his subject obeyed willingly, if not at the point of a spear.

This system of political paternalism was based on the family unit wherein the father was both the leader, the final arbitrator of disputes within the family and the ultimately the final authority.

This paternal top-down mindset naturally carried over into European national politics. The lower and middle class citizens of both Germany and Italy, despite living in pseudo democracies, learned from birth to obey their superiors, if not at first willingly then certainly, again, at the point of a spear. Understanding this help explain how and why the German and Italian people willingly went along with their fascist leaders.

Here in the US we never suffered under this political handicap. Indeed, for the original European immigrants the American continent was so vast, and the distance between Europe and the American colonies so far, that throwing off the yoke of English domination was only a matter of time. That the framers of the US Constitution were shrewd enough, being educated first hand in the dangers and pitfalls of paternal politics of both the English monarchy and organized European christian religions, to craft a secular Republic for our form of governance would tend to, at least in my mind, mitigate the effects of power hungry individuals regardless of whether they lean to the left or the right.

Americans, in general and for good reasons, have learned not to trust politicians. We see what’s happening in Syria and Russia and other countries around the world where paternal political systems render the people virtual slaves to the state.

Even now, a mere thirteen months after the election of the Tea Party republicans, which most assuredly was a rabid knee-jerk reaction to the election of the first Black president, most independents and even previous supporters of Tea Party candidates and politics have grown tired of their intransience and in general their martinet like political and social mindset.

It’s for these reasons that I doubt fascism could easily take hold in America, even in difficult times. At the end of the day we’re just too damn independent to blindly follow orders, and we rather enjoy taking down bloviating egotist regardless if they’re political or religious big shots

4 votes

#1.18 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:39 AM EST

A J: #1.18

Look at the poll numbers for an example of how the "conservatives" are thinking. True it is not a scientific poll and the numbers and responses are not a large enough sampling to get anything but a rough idea of the people here on this site.

But the fact that this site leans heavily to the liberals side should be looked at as a warning that if this many conservatives on this site feel that way, how many out in the real world fel that way ??

Now you can see it as ya please. But to me Fascism is on the rise in America and around the world.

5 votes

#1.19 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:23 PM EST

cbgrandpa # 20.19~

Part of the problem with your poll question is that you assume, wrongly I believe, that the people who answered the question have an adequate or proper understanding of what Fascism is. Perhaps you needed to give an overview of what you mean by Fascism.

Fascism is almost the exact opposite of today’s conservative Tea Party movement, which as a true liberal pains me to say. European Fascism was a political system in which the national government held all the political power (which the TP abhors), ran a nationalized / centralized capitalist economy and corporations (which the TP abhors). That state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the nation, the government and other state institutions (which the TP abhors). Fascist governments, among other things, forbid and suppress political opposition.

If you’ve watched any of the republican debates you’ve seen everything from libertarianism (Ron Paul who believes that the US should withdraw from the world and that individuals should be free to live without interference from a over reaching federal government, the exact opposite of fascism) to Gingrich and Bachmann who believe a strong central government is antithesis to personal freedom, again the exact opposite of fascism.

While the Tea party movement may be bigoted or myopic in their view, they certainly aren’t fascist

2 votes

#1.20 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:39 PM EST

Asheville Jack:

#1.20

Fascism is the blend of the Corporations and the Government. It is a politcal movement by where the corporations and the government control all that goes on in the nation.

Our Government is to control the laws whereby corporations have no control of the citizens or their ability to be free from the corporate rule through manipulation of the financial well being of the private citizens. We have been bought and sold.

Our government is controlled by globalist corporate leaders who steal away our strengths, and sell our rights to the highest bidders.

Don't believe it ?? Look around and see how many rights they have taken from you already.

4 votes

#1.21 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:51 PM EST

Fear of the power of corporations has always been with us. Thomas Jefferson noted "the selfish spirit of commerce (that) knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.

However, that doesn't automatically render corporations in America partners in a fascist conspiracy.

It 's always been easy to become emotional when discussing politics, especially historically notorious subjects such as fascism . It's always more difficult to remain rational and to not make generalized statements.

1 vote

#1.22 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:12 PM EST

The cost of freedom is constant vigilance against our government being bought by the wealthy and powerful.

We have failed to do that. Ike warned us it was coming, it has come and it is accepted by those with no inclination of what comes next.

3 votes

#1.23 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:24 PM EST

again, cbgrandpa, you offer generalized personal opinions as proof of your assertions. Show me facts - proof, not opinions, that the Tea Party or the republican party or the religious right for that matter is committed to turning American into a fascist nation.

This is one of the major problems with a lot of sites and blogs like NV. People regurgitating their own or others opinions as some sort of reality. This is the same thing the left accuses the right of and the right accuses the left of.

I could start a column with the assertion that Israel is a fascist nation, or that Israel is the center of God's plan to return to earth, or that Israel practices apartheid as a national policy. Many people would chime in with their opinions both for and opposed to these assertions. However, short of supplying a background of actual facts for my assertions you would be right to not take me seriously.

Sorry, cbgrandpa, columns like this are just a ruse to gather up a few NV pennies at the expense of useful discourse. Of course, since i have no facts to back up that particular belief you would be right to dismiss it as strictly opinion, like this column.

3 votes

#1.24 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:37 PM EST

A J:

Dismiss this column. I could really care less.

I've already dismissed your opinion as one that fails to see the seriousness of the situation we face in this nation. Not that I think you can't see it. But that like so many who were in Germany and the surrounding countries, they just wouldn't accept that it could happen there.

3 votes

#1.25 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:56 PM EST

T'omm J'Onzz

#1.3 dismissed, too. "Eats, Shoots and Leaves," dude.

1 vote

#1.26 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:34 PM EST

Grisham

Another well written article, cowboygrandpa. I went with the 'somewhat' option. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're like the Nazi's, but they do have similarities.

You mentioned the economy as being one of the main reasons for the rise of Nazi power. One thing to keep in mind is it wasn't just the economy but the fact that the economy was a direct result of the world inflicting crippling economic restitutions on the country. It was pretty easy for Hitler to blame everyone for Germany's economic woes.

Also, I think it was Poland who actually killed more Jews in the concentration camps than actual Nazi's. People can be foul.

And finally, the media was the main reason behind the rise of Nazi Germany. The propaganda machine was in full swing and they painted Hitlers enemies in the worst possible light. That's why it's so important that we keep our media free from control. We're doing a pretty poor job of that so far.

12 votes

#2 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:02 PM EST

Grisham:

Everywhere the Nazi boot was in control the Jews were murdered.

I'm not trying to say they are Nazi's per se. I'm saying their politics are Fascist based.

Yes, the world did cause some of the sorrows for the German people. But the German people kept allowing themselves to be fooled by leaders who caused them to have the problems. When they allowed Hitler to blame the Jews for the economic and social ills that Germanty faced they were looking for a scapegoat, just as the people here in America try and blame the Hispanics for coming here to try and make a better life for themselves.

We absolutely agree that the media and the poropagandists were allowed way to much control, and power. Faux News ?? LOL

Thanks for voting and adding you comments Grisham as always a pleasure to have you join in.

10 votes

#2.1 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:14 PM EST

You mentioned the economy as being one of the main reasons for the rise of Nazi power. One thing to keep in mind is it wasn't just the economy but the fact that the economy was a direct result of the world inflicting crippling economic restitutions on the country. It was pretty easy for Hitler to blame everyone for Germany's economic woes.

I have to disagree with this one.

Similarities can be manufactured: Our current economic woes if tweeted the wrong way can produce the same results, like prolonging the economic slowdown, keeping people unemployed by continue to not fund infrastructure repair or building, by investing money and power into corporations and not this country's people.

2 votes

#2.2 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:08 PM EST

Grisham then how come the nazis endorsed your guy's movement the OWS it is the liberals that are the party of bigger goverment

#2.3 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:16 PM EST

Grisham

Our current economic woes if tweeted the wrong way can produce the same results, like prolonging the economic slowdown, keeping people unemployed by continue to not fund infrastructure repair or building, by investing money and power into corporations and not this country's people.

Perhaps. But those would all be problems created in house (in America) not because other countries were forcing you to pay restitution while people starved in the streets.

Grisham then how come the nazis endorsed your guy's movement the OWS it is the liberals that are the party of bigger goverment

I have no idea what this means or what you're trying to say. What Nazi's?

2 votes

#2.4 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:31 PM EST

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/24/occupy-protests-reveal-democrats-true-colors/#ixzz1dcXL274g

What Nazi's?

you're joking right

According to the skinheads, OWS is taking on the same “judeo-capitalist banksters” that they themselves so deeply despise. On their website, Nazi Party leader Rocky Suhayda acknowledged that many of the organizers and protesters were non-Aryan communists, but he wrote, “Even Adolf Hitler’s NSDAP had to vote with open communists on some issues to achieve their goals.”

#2.5 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:42 PM EST

Grisham

you're joking right

According to the skinheads, OWS is taking on the same “judeo-capitalist banksters” that they themselves so deeply despise.

So your proof is a right wing rag?

The OWS movement isn't unique to America. It's all over. It's in other countries. It's made up of people who are pissed off at their governments (and this would include Obama) and the corporate take over of their countries.

4 votes

#2.6 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:04 PM EST

my proof is own the damn nazis website didn't read what I said

On their website, Nazi Party leader Rocky Suhayda acknowledged that many of the organizers and protesters were non-Aryan communists, but he wrote, “Even Adolf Hitler’s NSDAP had to vote with open communists on some issues to achieve their goals.”

and then their is the link http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/24/occupy-protests-reveal-democrats-true-colors/#ixzz1dcXL274g

1 vote

#2.7 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:44 PM EST

my proof is own the damn nazis website didn't read what I said

On their website, Nazi Party leader Rocky Suhayda acknowledged that many of the organizers and protesters were non-Aryan communists, but he wrote, “Even Adolf Hitler’s NSDAP had to vote with open communists on some issues to achieve their goals.”

and then their is the link http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/24/occupy-protests-reveal-democrats-true-colors/#ixzz1dcXL274g

Sorry, but how is this relevant to this article? We are talking off fascist tendencies of the GOP/Tea Party. I find your line of argument irrelevant.

Perhaps. But those would all be problems created in house (in America) not because other countries were forcing you to pay restitution while people starved in the streets.

Exactly.

It is in house, and although we do not have mass starvation, we do have an over dependence on our corporations for goods and income, with corporations in politically influential positions with our government.

#2.8 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:49 PM EST

T'omm J'Onzz

#2.3: "Eats, Shoots and Leaves"

#2.9 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:35 PM EST

cowboygrandpa

Everywhere the Nazi boot was in control the Jews were murdered.

I am going to take some latitudes with your response to Grisham here, based upon my personal experiences, at the time, with the Japanese. I knew what the Nazis did from reading about it but, what the Japanese did, I saw first hand. They were noted for their brutality against everyone they conquered not just the Jews and more especially the Chinese whom they considered on the level of animals.

Yes, the world did cause some of the sorrows for the German people.

The world did not cause the problems that the German people, as a whole, faced. They were faced with paying reparations for WWI which they started.

But the German people kept allowing themselves to be fooled by leaders who caused them to have the problems. When they allowed Hitler to blame the Jews for the economic and social ills that Germany faced they were looking for a scapegoat,

The German people and the Japanese people danced in the streets and cheered on their armies with each conquest so, in effect, they were complicit with the horrors being perpetrated upon their victims. That is until the wars turned around and they began to lose, then they became the innocent victims of their military leaders. We who liberated their concentration camps, and POW, camps know just how inhumanely they treated those that they conquered. Too little has been said about this on the world stage and Japan, while supposedly one of our staunchest allies, has released to their school systems their revised editions of the war and conditions that they created in which they are portraying themselves and the innocent victims instead of what they in truth really were.

Just as the people here in America try and blame the Hispanics for coming here to try and make a better life for themselves.

The LEGAL American citizens do not blame the LEGAL Hispanics for coming to this country for a better life, as you put it, we blame the Federal Government for not following the rules of law in securing our border so that the ILLEGAL ALIENS can simply walk across it bringing God knows what to this country and its law abiding citizens both natural and/or émigrés.

End of the old man's rant about problems real or perceived. Stay well my Friend.

1 vote

#2.10 - Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:51 AM EST

Grandpa,

At this time the conservatives are pledging undying love and loyalty to the Jewish state of Israel and the Jewish people. My question, "Do you expect the conservatives to betray that love and loyalty?"

1 vote

#3 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:41 PM EST

#3.

Stevie:

I don't expect any group to display any type of behavior completely. That is why "conservatives" was put into quotation marks.

I do think that some will betray that love and loyalty if it costs them to much money. I believe that some will also see the behavior of the Fascists as a complete surprise when their eyes are opened to the truth.

I'm not a conservative. Yet I'm loyal to Israel.

3 votes

#3.1 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:51 PM EST

I'm not a conservative. Yet I am loyal to Israel.

Truth be known I think most liberal are too. But liberals understand that the Palestinians are people created by the same God that created the Jewish people.

4 votes

#3.2 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:07 PM EST

Stevie:

We are all Created by the same God. The problem is not all worship the Same God.

2 votes

#3.3 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:35 PM EST

At this time the conservatives are pledging undying love and loyalty to the Jewish state of Israel and the Jewish people. My question, "Do you expect the conservatives to betray that love and loyalty?"

Do fascists have to have any particular feelings for Israel?

In this case loyal to Israel works in their favor, because a majority of their supporters are either Christian or Jewish. NOTE: I think this brand of fascism is more about position, power, culturalism and means than religious bigotry against Israel.

1 vote

#3.4 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:16 PM EST

The problem is not all worship the same God.

Yes, that is so true. I live in a community that worships a different God the Father, a different Jesus and a different Holy Spirit.

1 vote

#3.5 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:54 PM EST

Polka14

The rise of fascism is coming from government as a complete entity. That is why they (both parties) were nearly unanimous in passing the national defense authorization act that allows the government to use military to kidnap anyone (even US citizens) suspected of being "terrorists" and hold them without charges or a trial indefinitely (forever). The US would be more similar to the Soviet Union and not Fascist Germany but it would have traits from both dictatorships.

6 votes

#4 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:59 PM EST

Polka14:

The US would be more similar to the Soviet Union and not Fascist Germany but it would have traits from both dictatorships.

I'm not so sure about that. I think Russia has become more Fascist than Communistic. Comunism being that everything is owned by the State.

The rise of fascism is coming from government as a complete entity. That is why they (both parties) were nearly unanimous in passing the national defense authorization act that allows the government to use military to kidnap anyone (even US citizens) suspected of being "terrorists" and hold them without charges or a trial indefinitely (forever).

Fascism is definitely rising it was ushered in by Nixon and cemented in place by Reagan. Sadly those who followed have implemented the things needed to build the protective wall around those who believe that corporatism-Fascism- should be the accepted way of life.

5 votes

#4.1 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:22 PM EST

Since the time of Nixon and Pat Buchanan's Silent Majority, our politics has been about us verses them, be them Liberals, Communists, Catholics, Hispanics, Blacks, Gays, Muslims. Any group will do. The OTHER is to be feared and hated - or at least held in contempt. Any "nonconformity to an accepted norm" is suspect as being both un-American and anti-Christian (Look at the fight Romney has because he is a Mormon and not a true Christian). The politics of fear and divide rules.

Economics affect an individuals view of God. When we are afraid, God becomes harsh, looking to send us to Hell. Old Testament Christianity, like that of the Great Depression preachers Billy Sunday and the Reverend Ike, replaces the more spiritual Christianity of say the 1960's when people like John XXIII and Martin Luther King, Jr. used their faith in Jesus to promote social justice and racial equality. Today's Christian community seems an odd marriage between Jesus and a twisted version of Ayn Rand.

We have abandoned the Liberal Arts education, that education required to live as free men. In fact, except for its value economically, education has become declasse. It is chic to be ignorant.

To be strong now means to be mean and nasty. When I was young, to be strong gave one an obligation to protect the weak. To be "high class" meant that one was able to make all feel important and equal. Now it is, "I have more money than you, so I am better and smarter." The Social Darwinism that lead to Hitler is in vogue once again.

We do not discuss. We seldom even debate. It is, "I am right and you are an idiot and probably un-American for having a different view." If you are of a different denomination of Christianity, you are somehow evil and foul.

We may be at the beginning of an Age of American Fascist state or witnessing the death throws of the last conservative wave as the pendulum starts to swing in the other direction. I guess November 2012 will tell.

5 votes

#5 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:36 PM EST

samenslow:

Well stated

3 votes

#5.1 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:40 PM EST

There is no real fascist presence in the United States. We live in a nation where there is not much political extremism.

1 vote

#6 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:49 PM EST

Vlad's dog

There does seem to be a correlation on how both use politics, creating anger against the weak and powerless who are used a straw men to blame all of societies problems on.

The poor caused the economic crisis not those who have the power.

The homosexuals are destroying morality not those moral leaders who display a lack of moral principles while espousing morality to the masses.

Socialism destroys society not greed and avarice.

Yep, sounds very familiar.

Capitalism without opportunity for everyone is not freedom, it is monatery fascism.

8 votes

#7 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:57 PM EST

We live in a nation where there is not much political extremism.

Really, what nation do you live in? Lol

2 votes

#8 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:00 PM EST

Really, what nation do you live in?

The United States. This is a nation where the political parties act in much the same way, and there is very little political violence. We are a nation that thankfully has very little political extremism.

1 vote

#8.1 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:03 PM EST

lloyd:

Apparently political extremism has different meanings to diufferent people.

3 votes

#8.2 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:34 PM EST

cowboygrandpa

I was thinking just that after I saw the response.

It is an impossibility to change someone else's perception of reality, so I won't try. We can watch the future unfold and determine the correct definition.

1 vote

#8.3 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:48 PM EST

lloyd:

FR sent.

1 vote

#8.4 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:53 PM EST

Cowboygrandpa

Thank you, accepted with pleasure.

1 vote

#8.5 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:28 PM EST

I voted yes.

There are way too many similarities. A good example is the GOP growing lack of intolerance within the party. There is simply no room for moderate thinkers and policy makers. Another worry is their actions as a party: They are in lock-step in everything they have done - no decenters, no bi-partisan compromise, especially when it allows bigoted views and voices to be heard from their ranks.

2 votes

#9 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:59 PM EST

The Merchant:

Fascists allow no room for individual beliefs within the party. It is Heil GOP or out the door. :~)) :~))

2 votes

#9.1 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:12 PM EST

hugh b

the main reason Nazis came into power was because of the extreme burdens placed on Germany at the treaty of Versailles

they also used the threat of communism and socialism, regardles of the "socialist" in the Nazi logo, there was nothing "socialist' about them

fascism is a dictatorship, it is fed with national idendity and entitlement, it is supported with militarism, propaganda, and fear...

to focus the citizenry you need common enemies. you need a "noble and elite" class, you need a military put up on a pedestal, you need an uneducated populace...

hmmm, USA USA USA

now watch as the public is tenderized and conditioned to accept the violence against those that protest against the government

in germany it started with isolating the political factions that opposed the Nazis, soon it was the Jews, then the neighboring countries...

don't think for a minute that "homeland security" was designed solely to defend this country from external threats, not for one minute, it is the internal threat that is sure to escalate

4 votes

#10 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:32 PM EST

Hugh b:

The Nazis spun whatever they could to bring about what they wanted.

Look at the GOP/TPer's ?? Faux News and anti freedom is mostly what I hear from them.

2 votes

#10.1 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:14 PM EST

I have sung this song for years in that I do remember the social structures of the late 20s on into the 30s as Hitler came to power. The parallels sometimes get downright scary because my old mind says oh, oh here we go again. "Those who choose not to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Someone will say something or something will happen on the world stage and my old mind says where the heck have I seen or heard this before? In those days the Axis Powers consisted of Germany, Japan, and Italy as the aggressor nations doing great harm to the world and its then population. Stop for just a moment and consider just who the aggressor nation is today and you will reach the sad conclusion that the US seems to be the only nation in the world which fights wars of convenience!

5 votes

#11 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:57 PM EST

FINutmegger:

My first father-in-law and I used to speak of it. He was convinced it was the Fascists who killed the Kennedy's as well as MLK.

He warned me of the ways of the evil they did and said to watch out for the time when many of those who fought ithe war against them had died. Because Fascist Pigs like Nixon had brought the Nazi's back to America to ensure the "conservative" party would not disappear.

2 votes

#11.1 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:24 PM EST

watch out for the time when many of those who fought ithe war against them had died

Interesting choice of words there since most of us are now gone and those of us that are still here are going at an ever increasing rate. It won't be too long before your Father in Laws predictions will be put to the test. I have to tell you though that from a personal standpoint I am already seeing the history revisionists rewriting that war showing the Allies as the aggressors. Japan released their new history books to their schools in which they showed nothing of their historical atrocities, think The Rape of Nanking here or the Bataan Death March. If this is allowed to stand then what we did and suffered will have been for nothing.

For the US in particular, the Department of Veterans Affairs estimated, in May of this year, 2011, that only 2,079,000 US veterans of WW2 - out of 16,112,566 total US service members during the war - are still alive.

4 votes

#11.2 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:51 PM EST

Yes it is sad that during the Reagan years he took away some of the benefits needed by some of those vets to continue living.

My dad died in '89 from Lymphoma. The doctors at the VA told him they weren't allowed to treat him and precious time was lost to start the treatment.

Now I watch my fellow Nam vets struggle with Agent Orange complications and wonder when it will if ever take me.

Freedom was never free. Those who paid for it know the cost best. The Fascists hate us, because we will not roll over for them.

3 votes

#11.3 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:07 PM EST

It didn’t matter for me by then because I went twice to the VA for assistance after I had come home for proven combat related problems and got turned down both times. I brought home some pretty nasty scars but only the ones on my face were evident and I wanted to have some cosmetic surgery done to get rid of them and was denied because of the word “Cosmetic”. The second time was for “experimental” brain surgery to take care of a problem I got on Bougainville Island. I took one full in the chest from a sniper there and the Docs ignored the bump on my head while they worked on the chest. Cost me most of a lung. After a couple of years I started having seizures and a doctor said that I needed to have this surgery done, or else, but that it was experimental and the VA jumped all over that like a bum after beef stew and denied the surgery even though, as the doc said, they were sending me home to die. The doc did the surgery for free and the company I was working for picked up the hospital charges. All of my military records, DD214, medals, commendations, are at the bottom of a landfill and I never looked back. I am just an old beat up guy sitting in God’s waiting room Florida! I do have to admnit however that my old BAR that I carried all over the POacific sits in my closet here and is operational too. The Army spiked it but I had it rebuilt, so that is one for the old guy!

I am truly sorry for your loss with your Dad. Things of that nature are really hard to justify. My own Dad died many years ago from the extended circumstances of having been gassed during WWI in France. He was much too young when I consider just how old I am.

I had a brother, Brother #5, of the 5 of us, who saw combat in WWII, and had the unique distinction of having seen combat, and been wounded, in every war from WWII through Viet Nam. He passed last year, not from his wounds but from the delayed effects of Agent Orange after spending 6 years there. Keep the faith!!

2 votes

#11.4 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:29 PM EST

FINutenmegger:

Thank you sir, and again let me thank you for your service and sacrifice for our country and it's people.

I still have shrapnel working out of my arm from my time in country. The medals meant more to my mom and kids and grandkids than they ever did me. To me the ones who earned the medals never came home with me.

No Agent Orange for me yet. Although I'm starting to have senior moments that are frightening to me, because I can't remember simple things. :~(( :~((.

Peace and may God Bless you and yours.

3 votes

#11.5 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:40 PM EST

Thank you and the very kindest of wishes for good health to you and yours, also. Be well.

Let me say that the senior moments are wide spread and unoque to us all since I am very guilty of going into a room and saying to myself; "self what the heck are you in here for"?

God Bless!!

3 votes

#11.6 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:44 PM EST

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment

Naomi Wolfs article on Democracy to Fascism in ten easy steps.

Seems appropriate for this Article and the discussion.

2 votes

#12 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:46 PM EST

Susan Anthony

I wonder what God is thinking about his/her experiment now? I will die in these dark ages. I can only hope that some noble idealist goals will survive in future generations or all of humankind will be dust.

There are other habitable planets out there, maybe life on one of those planets will get it right.

1 vote

#13 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:13 PM EST

Susan

Maybe so...

1 vote

#14 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:31 PM EST

misterme-2564885

“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”

Sinclair Lewis

3 votes

#15 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:28 PM EST

lost in America-3937007

Cowboy Grandpa, as usual you make a good argument. I do think it might be a little extreme. However, with the political climate being what it is, maybe not.

Like many older Americans, the thought of fascism is appalling and I can't imagine that the U.S. would go that route anymore than I believe that we will embrace socialism. There are always extremists who lean one way or the other, but I also believe that there are many moderates in the U.S. that will rise to the occasion and prevent the destruction of the constitution and the U.S.

3 votes

#16 - Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:59 PM EST

There are always extremists who lean one way or the other, but I also believe that there are many moderates in the U.S. that will rise to the occasion and prevent the destruction of the constitution and the U.S.

Ahh, that pesky Constitution.

The best bet against the rise of tyranny is an educated populace that participates in the political process.

2 votes

#16.1 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:52 PM EST

Ahh, that pesky Constitution.

Or as GWB described it, Asheville Jack, "That God damned piece of paper." I would, with respect here, suggest also that he violated it more than a few times during his terms which only goes to show his respect for truth and the law. /s

1 vote

#16.2 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:08 PM EST

As i understand it GWB has to be careful where he travels overseas now as there has been talk of war crimes and possible arrest.

1 vote

#16.3 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:15 PM EST

I have been reading the same. I truly wonder, though, if there is any country that would arrest a former POTUS, even GWB. The economic response to cutting off the present, and future foreign aid that, I would bet the farm, the country is receiving, would become a decided factor in their activities. Now with Cheney or Rove I would also say all bets are off and have at them.

1 vote

#16.4 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:24 PM EST

Susan Anthony

One major problem with Liberals is we do not create sufficient generational self-supporting institutions that support progressive goals and ideals. Corporations are a natural fit for "neocons" because they are a machine stripped bare of humanity with one insatiable goal -- profit.

4 votes

#17 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:29 AM EST

seastar

Those of us who had parents who lived through the Nazi hell can see the similarities with today's Far Right wing within the GOP.

4 votes

#18 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:03 AM EST

seastar:, And those of us still around, who actually lived during that period, will keep reminding folks of the inherent dangers as they continue to rise. George Santayana’s famous words of: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" can be ignored at your peril. As we die off the peril increases exponentially.

5 votes

#18.1 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:20 AM EST

lost in America-3937007

I'm glad you said far right.

1 vote

#18.2 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:09 PM EST

~ Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

What amazes me also is the lack of knowledge that young people have today of the sacrifices made by labor and labor unions in the first half of the twentieth century in raising wages.

Thanks to a mostly successful campaign by the right wing to vilify workers and labor unions over the last fifty years, labor is now seen as evil or a socialist plot, when in fact labor unions efforts were aimed primarily at creating a living wage and safe working conditions. At one time in America if a worker died due to unsafe working conditions the company would just hire another to replace him or her. Workers lives meant nothing, other than a means to an end - profits.

1 vote

#18.3 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:31 PM EST

Interesting coincidence(?). Yesterday the Turner Classic Channel showed a 1940 movie, the Mortal Storm. The movie told the story on the effect Nazism had on three families. The story line began in 1933. I have to say the parallels to 1933 in Germany to America 1980 to present are bone chilling. I highly recommend the movie. The stars were Jimmy Stewart, Robert Young and Margaret Sullivan.

3 votes

#19 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:10 AM EST

Earlier I posted about our neglect of the Liberal Arts education, the education required to live as free men and women. I just recalled that Albert Speer in his Inside the Third Reich stated he was trained as an architect with very little exposure to the humanities and Liberal Arts. He wanted the opportunity to build buildings and later to build armaments. He gave no thought to the side effects of his actions. Today's MBA's, lawyers, and others concentrate only on how to make money (with some rare exceptions for those practicing certain types of law). The social consequences of their "Greed is Good" Social Darwinism doesn't cross their minds. They would be easier to confront if they thought themselves as evil, but they are too ignorant to even think about such things.

5 votes

#20 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:08 PM EST

Earlier I posted about our neglect of the Liberal Arts education, the education required to live as free men and women.

A liberal arts education can not make an evil man good.

They would be easier to confront if they thought themselves as evil, but they are too ignorant to even think about such things.

Very few people have ever thought of themselves as evil. People always see their own actions as justified.

3 votes

#20.1 - Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:37 PM EST

A Liberal Arts education can make those of us in the middle of being good or evil aware of how we are being played by teaching us how (not what) to think critically and analytically. It can also help us refute bad ideas and promote what we believe to be good ideas effectively. It can also make us at least aware of how our actions have tangential consequences. Also knowledge helps prevent us from being afraid. We seldom fear that which we understand because we know how to confront the object of our fears (I am speaking about irrational fears).

Socrates would disagree with you on the effects of education on morality and its ability to help create good men. An educated man will be good because it benefits him. The problem is defining "Virtue". Of course no amount of education will affect a sociopath.

3 votes

#20.2 - Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:03 AM EST

An educated man will be good because it benefits him

So will an uneducated man. Anyone can be good when it will benefit them. Being good when evil is more profitable is a lot harder.

1 vote

#20.3 - Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:12 AM EST

Evil is never more profitable except for short term and only if you are discussing money or power as being the benefit. If good equals money and power then Evil wins. Nothing wrong with money or power, but how it is earned and spent can be good or evil. It is knowledge that will determine that.

The idea is a man will not be a thief because being a thief will harm the community in which he lives thus harming himself.

2 votes

#20.4 - Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:26 AM EST

Evil is never more profitable except for short term and only if you are discussing money or power as being the benefit.

And no amount of education will stop people from viewing power as the ultimate good.

It is knowledge that will determine that.

You can be very educated and still be evil.

#20.5 - Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:40 AM EST