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COWBOYGRANDPA

The death of others does not solve our problems, they become our problems.
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Does Everybody Sin ??

Mon Jan 2, 2012 1:44 PM EST
religion, sex, drugs, lies, greed, drinks, pride, sin
By cowboygrandpa

Live Poll

Should Christians say more to those who claim Christ, but act like His enemy instead ??

View Results
  • 172266
    Yes !!! We are to follow Christ. Not the money, power, political party, sex, or other ways of the flesh.
    46%
  • 172267
    It's none of anybody elses business what people do.
    31%
  • 172268
    No. People should point out the sins of the non believers, because they are sinners.
    0%
  • 172269
    None of the above. See my answer below in the comments section.
    23%

VoteTotal Votes: 13

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Does everybody sin ??  Well, I guess that depends upon who ya talk to.  I believe everybody sins, some people more than others, some people worse than others.

Is it my business to point out their sins ??  Not if they are not a member of The Church, it is not.  But if they are confessing to be a brother or sister in The Lord, we are called to rebuke them. 

1 Corinthians 5:9-13

 

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner- not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

 

1 Corinthians 5:1-8

5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles-that a man has his father's wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.


 


 

 

 

I want to make people aware of what is taught in The New Testament.  So they will understand how it is that I come to Christ and worship Him and not those who try and teach legalism and self righteousness based upon the behavior of those outside of the Church.

Now I'm quite sure we all know some people who believe they are morally superior to almost everyone else because they claim Christ.  I'm also quite sure that when their behavior is examined we find them to be much less than what Christ says we are to be in Him. 

Disappointed ??  We all are disappointing in comparison to Jesus Christ.  Here is the thing though.  There are some of us who really do work to follow His path, because we know that He is The Way, The Only Way to God The Father.  We are not put off by the sins of others, we still Love them, and pray for them.  When we find sin in a fellow brother or sister we approach them in a Loving way to see if they are even aware of their error.  I have a brother in the Lord who is living in sin with his girlfriend, I used to eat with them and take them out to dinner with my wife.  We now don't go to dinner or lunch with them. 

 We have talked to them and they agree they are going to get married, but they continue to put it off and things keep happening to the money they are supposed to get married with.  I have given them money for the mariage license, and offered to help them with things and they say okay, but it has been six months and they still are making excuses.  So I have rebuked them and told them to let me know when they want to straighten themselves out with The Lord, so my wife and I can have fellowship with them again.

It hurts to not speak with them and see them as they are our friends, but we can't continue to enable them to behave as if they are walking in The Lord when they are not.  That to me is real Love, I don't wish to see them continue to mock the Lord God with their lies.  They are hurting themselves and they admit it, but they continue because the lust of the flesh is so strong.  I know they will come back to Christ, because they are true believers who are temporarily being stumbled by the water of the well of the flesh and they thirst for it.  We are praying for them, and will welcome them back with joy when they finally repent and allow Christ to again cleanse and change them.

 

You may ask what this has to do with anything.  If you have followed many of my articles you will see that I am a firm believer in mercy and in not judging those outside of Christ as being judgable by me or other Christians.   You will also notice that I am not above calling out those who claim Christ but do not follow His teachings.  This is the basis of that belief.  Paul an Apostle of God called by Christ to serve Him gave messages to the followers of Christ, that many today reject.   Yet they are in line with what Christ taught, and if the believers would just open their eyes and see they would see that Paul is talking mainly about the believers in the Church, not those who are outside of the Church.

That is why I get upset when people try to use Paul's writings as against non believers.  Paul was speaking to we who believe in Christ, and how we are to live.  Root out the sin in our lives and allow the people to see Christ in us and they will then know the difference and be able to see the fruit of Christ in we who follow Him.

 

This is shared in His Love, not to condemn people.  As always comments are welcome.  Disagree all ya please, just respect the rights of others to discuss what they believe. 

 

 

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  • Public Discussion (80)
cowboygrandpa

The block quotes on the 1 Corinthinans 5:1-8 some how got taken out. I apologize.

I don't know how to fix it.

Hope ya enjoy the article, or at least understand why I believe as I do.

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 1:49 PM EST
lloyd-3730046

cowboygrandpa

Hope ya enjoy the article, or at least understand why I believe as I do.

I accept that you believe as you do. We all have our reasons for belief.

Also, your article simply is not appearing on my screen??? I see the title and a few tags, but unfortunately nothing else.

Peace

  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:09 PM EST
cowboygrandpa

Llyod:

Thank you, it shows up in my screen ?? Hmmm ?? I'll have to check to se what is going on.

  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:18 PM EST
Reply
MoCowgirl-1193719

cowboygrandpa,

I understand that you are "sincere" in your beliefs. I do not share them in any way.

I will note that since I became a non-Christian, I have lost the need to judge people for their personal actions / decisions that harm no one....especially me.

What harm is your brother doing to you personally that you cast him out of your life?

  • 8 votes
#3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:25 PM EST
cowboygrandpa

MoCowgirl:

The harm my brother does, is that he teaches others that it is alright to say one follows Christ when he doesn't. Then they may look at him and say, hey it's okay to live together if you claim Christ as your Lord. Look at this couple they've been living together for a couple of years and still atend church.

We are a body of believers in Christ, if it hurts the body of Christ it is not acceptable. He died once for our sins, we now die to our flesh and honor Him and His Way. If one cannot do that, then one should not proclaim they are in Christ. We have have to count the cost before starting our life with Him.

We are warned that the path to destruction is wide, but His path is narrow.

  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:34 PM EST
MoCowgirl-1193719

There are Christians who now believe that God used evolution to create mankind and everything on it.

So if God allowed people to evolve from apes with only instincts to guide their survival, shouldn't Christians practice some kind of tolerance for people evolving in spiritual growth and spend their time guiding them very gently, and very tenderly instead of throwing them to the wolves?

Your brother will find his way with or without you or the church. I just hate to see the discord and division in families and communities in the name of love, peace, and tolerance....especially since I have been on the receiving end of it.

It did make me stronger. It did result in freeing me from oppressive beliefs. I will never be a slave or an oppressive believer again. However, the wounds will never completely heal....nor will I ever forgive the loved ones who inflicted them in the name of love. I think that you know not what you do in the name of love ....and my heart hurts for you and your brother.

  • 2 votes
#3.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:45 PM EST
cowboygrandpa

My heart aches for my brother more than you can know. This is a man whom I got work for where I'm a supervisor. We work together, and I still help him out.

I see the things he is going through, and I talk to him and he keeps telling me that he and his girlfriend have to get married because things keep happening to him, that he is being tested.

I tell him that God has been very good to him, that when he was living on the street in his car, God allowed him to find work. He knows these things, and it hurts him. But he keeps making excuses to not get married. He and his girlfriend are now fighting about money and material things. I have told him that material things in this world have very little meaning if you have no-one to share them with.

If you think that this is just an overnight thing, you are wrong, it has been going on now for over a year, and my wife and I just stopped doing things with them socially.

My heart breaks for them.

  • 1 vote
#3.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:04 PM EST
MoCowgirl-1193719

If they are fighting now, then it would be very foolish to get married until they resolve those issues. No one should ever give a lifelong commitment to each other that will likely result in never ending strife between themselves and everyone associated with them.

Your brother is not engaging in criminal behavior.

I understand the reasons why you are choosing to take the stand that you have. I just don't believe that it will ever be beneficial to your or your brother's lives and relationship based on my personal experience of the fallout that results when meddling in loved ones personal lives.

  • 3 votes
#3.4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:53 PM EST
katrix

I have a brother in the Lord who is living in sin with his girlfriend, I used to eat with them and take them out to dinner with my wife. We now don't go to dinner or lunch with them.

Where does the bible say it's a sin to live together? Isn't it the fornication which is a sin - in which case, you need to get rid of far more of your friends than just these two. I believe your bible tells you to leave the judging to your god, anyway. Surely you'll be able to better set a good example if you keep them in your life than by shunning them. Do you also shun people who eat pork?

  • 3 votes
#3.5 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 2:07 PM EST
cowboygrandpa

katrix:

The difference between believers and non believers is immense. God says we believers are not to judge the non believers, He will do that.

He says we are to hold our brothers and sisters in The Lord accountable for their behaviors.

Thats funny, do I shun people who eat pork ?? Hahahahahahaaaa !!!!

Have you ever noticed me calling out the people who claim Christ but say it is okay to be greedy ?? Would you not have me call them out and say that their behavior is not in line with the teachings of Christ ?? It is the same thing.

  • 1 vote
#3.6 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 2:10 AM EST
katrix

Thanks for the reply, and I've always thought you were a good example of a Christian (and stil do). Yet this did dismay me, coming from you. It's one thing to try to lead your Christian friends down the right path, but it's another to stop having dinner with them because they're doing something you feel is immoral. All of your friends are doing something immoral in your religion's view, most likely - they just are hiding it.

Since the fornication is the part that you're supposed to consider a sin, what's the difference between your friends who are living together, and being intelligent enough not to take a vow they aren't yet sure they can keep since they're fighting - and all your other non-married friends who are probably enjoying sex together outside of marriage? Do you stop hanging out with anyone who is having sex before marriage? I guess I could see your judgment if they were committing adultery, but I just don't get it under these circumstances.

Besides, where did Jesus speak about sex outside of marriage, other than adultery? I'm not talking abotu Paul here, I'm talking about what Jesus said. The pork comment actually is relevant here.

  • 4 votes
#3.7 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 2:34 AM EST
cowboygrandpa

katrix:

Matthew 5:17-20

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

From The Bible study NKJV Word For Today Bible.

5:17, 18 Do not think that I came to destroy: Jesus rejected the Pharisees' charge that He was nullifying the law. The law was both temporary (see Gal. 3:19; Eph. 2:15; Heb. 7:12) and eternal (see 5:18; Rom. 3:31; 8:4). The word fulfill means "to fill out, expand, or complete." It does not mean to bring to an end. Jesus fulfills the law in several ways: (1) He obeyed it perfectly and taught its correct meaning (vv. 19, 20); (2) He will one day fulfill all of the Old Testament types and prophecies; and (3) He provides a way of salvation that meets all the requirements of the law (Rom. 3:21, 31). one jot or one tittle will by no means pass: This statement of Jesus provides us with one of the strongest affirmations in the Bible of the inerrancy of Scripture. It is absolutely trustworthy.

Jesus Christ covered all the Laws in this statement. He basically said nothing changes except that He has fulfilled the law. By Him fulfilling the Law the only way we are acceptable is to be in Him, because everyone of us fails to keep the Law. In Him there is Grace and God sees His perfection and not our faults, reject Him reject the Grace and be judged by the law.

See being in Christ doesn't give us permission to sin. It means we are dead to living in sin. We sin, but it is not a lifestyle. It is not our normal way of life. Our normal way of life is repentance in Him and allowing Him to change us. That is what is meant by our fruit, if our fruit is rotten we are not of Him, because He bears good fruit, and cannot bear rotten fruit.

At least that is the way I discern it.

  • 1 vote
#3.8 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 3:09 AM EST
katrix

But where did Jesus say sex outside of marriage was wrong, other than adultery?

How can you not apply your judgment to friend's who eat pork since that is still wrong?

  • 2 votes
#3.9 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:14 PM EST
TruettCollins

OK. you want to say eating pork is still wrong WHY?

Where did Jesus say it was wrong?

  • 1 vote
#3.10 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:37 PM EST
katrix

First tell me where Jesus said sex outside of marriage is wrong, since I've asked that a couple of times and gotten no response.

  • 1 vote
#3.11 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 11:37 AM EST
cowboygrandpa

katrix:

Matthew 5:31-32

31 "Furthermore it has been said, Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce. 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

From the Word for Today Bible Study NKJV

5:31, 32 Sexual immorality is a general term that includes premarital sex, extramarital infidelity, homosexuality, and bestiality (19:3).

When a woman was married to her husband in those days there was a sheet that was white with no stains upon which the man and woman consumated their marriage. If there was no blod stain from the taking of her virginity the husband could reject the wife as not being a virgin. The man was bound to the mariage contract because the woman had not kept her part of the agreement.

  • 1 vote
#3.12 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 11:47 AM EST
cowboygrandpa

#3.12

The man was not bound to the marriage contract because the woman had violated the contract by giving her virginity to another.

  • 1 vote
#3.13 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 11:54 AM EST
katrix

From the example in Matthew, the adultery is committed because she was already married, and the marriage isn't considered dissolved except in specific circumstances. So that isn't outside of marriage. Where does Jesus actually address it outside of marriage?

And sexual immorality is a relative concept. Most religions people would say sodomy counts while happily engaging in oral sex and knowing there's nothing immoral about it.

  • 3 votes
#3.14 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 11:55 AM EST
katrix

Where do you get the virginity part? It could mean she cheated on him.

  • 1 vote
#3.15 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:00 PM EST
Becky-2100114

Where is your second quote? You have the chapter and verse but no book sited. I can't find the word "homosexuality" in the KJ version. It says "men with men" but in reference to promiscuity. Even still......even if you think two companions of the same sex can't love each other, be committed and express that love to each other, that doesn't keep them from being eligible for salvation. Those who deny God and don't have faith in Him are who we should try to reach in LOVE. It clearly states in the Bible that sin is sin no matter how big or small. Therefore, we're ALL unworthy of God's grace. He doesn't weight sin so why do we? The only reason we should "weight" sin is for order in society. Societies moral code will never be at the level of some peoples liking because not everyone shares the same level of conviction and should be respected.

We are commanded as Christians to Love the Lord, our God with all our heart, with all our soul and all our mind and to lean not on others for understanding. We are told to follow Christ in Love and to make Him believable. How do we make Him believable? By attempting not to sin but that is NOT our ticket to enternal life and peace. Our ticket is to accept Gods grace.

I just hope to hear the words, "Well done, good and faithful servant."

  • 2 votes
#3.16 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:10 PM EST
cowboygrandpa

Becky:

The verse is the study of Matthew 5:31-32.

Yes we are to Love people beyond their sin as Christ Loves us. But if we reject Him we are not worthy to enter into His Kingdom. He makes us worthy through Him, we are not worthy because we try, we are worthy because He did.

I do not hate homosexuals, one of my grandsons is a homosexual. I still love him, but he is not in Christ.

  • 1 vote
#3.17 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:21 PM EST
Becky-2100114

I struggled with that one because I had an uncle that was gay. He was born in 1930 so needless to say, was in the closet for many many years. He met his companion and they were together for more than 50 years. They loved each other very much and both claimed to love God. They had faith and they produced good fruit while they were here. Only God knows their heart and who am I to judge them? I personally do not have an attraction to other women so that is not a temptation for me. It's not a struggle personally but I have my other issues. What I have the most issue with is so many say they don't "judge" non-believers but they are instructed to hold their brothers and sisters accountable. NOOOOO.......we are to set an example! The young girls I mentor at Church aren't always making healthy choices and don't recognize some of their choices as harmful to their spirit. They don't understand that they're distancing their relationship with Christ. When I discourage them from those things, I make it VERY clear that whether they change or not doesn't change God's forgiveness. Yes, once saved, always saved. We're promised that but.....they're not making God very believable to others or themselves. They're loosing sight of the truth because they're allowing sin to cloud it.

  • 1 vote
#3.18 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:31 PM EST
katrix

CowboyGrandpa 3:12 - the stained sheets had nothing to do with anything Jesus said. You'll note that it was fine if the man wasn't a virgin (not that there were any bloodstained sheets to prove it one way or the other). The stained sheets were because men wanted to make sure that any kids their wives had were actually theirs, and also because women were considered property back then.

And the "sexual immorality" says nothing about virginity anyway. I'm still waiting to hear where Jesus specifically addressed premarital sex. Your interpretations of sexual immorality don't count - it could just mean the wife gave her husband a blowjob.

  • 2 votes
#3.19 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:40 PM EST
Becky-2100114

Katrix,

The Song of Songs is a good example of the kind of love God wants us to hold out for. He clearly wants for us to have ONE companion through this life. I don't think any of us are "bad" if we don't do it the way we're "advised" but I can say, the people I know that have honored themselves and God, held out until marriage, generally have more success. I can't help but see that the Bible gives us good advice if we take it. Guys don't generally want a committed relationship with a woman who gives it up so freely. Some do but in my experience, I've seen that men don't value her as much because she shows little value for herself.

    #3.20 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:51 PM EST
    TruettCollins

    Katrix,

    First show where Jesus said that he was doing away with the laws as listed in the Old Testament.....
    Show anywhere in the new testament where that is stated......
    He did say that he fulfilled the laws, he stated that they were still in effect...the difference is that the penalty for breaking the laws of God was taken out of the hands of men and put into God's hands. So the laws as listed in the Old testament including those about sexual sin are still in effect, right along with the laws against bearing false wittiness, gluttony, murder, and they include adultery, and even fornication.

      #3.21 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:57 PM EST
      Hiram-1381633

      Becky you make some very good points that I agree with whole heartily. Sin is sin and we are all unworthy of God's grace. We should not weight sin but if we see another believer living in sin we are obligated to correct them and we are to do that with love. Jesus was not beyond correcting those who sinned. If we are indeed to love God with all our hearts, soul and mind that would meanwe also love Him enough to not purposely live in sin. I love my wife and would do anything for her and do nothing to hurt her. Should we love God less?

      We will all sin and we all will have to ask for forgiveness and then repent. If one does notrepent then we have to question on whether they really do love God with all their heart, mind and soul. Jesus said that if you love Me you will obey Me and obey the will of My Father who sent Me. Over and over it is pointed out that a believer and follower of Christ will be known by their fruits. Should our fruits be sin? Certainly not is what Paul said and he was correct. To do otherwise would to live a life bathed in hypocrisy.

      H

      • 1 vote
      #3.22 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:58 PM EST
      katrix

      Love songs are good, and for some people, having just one companion works. For many people, it doesn't. It just isn't realistic in many cases. And it's funny how usually it's the woman who's expected to hold out, while men aren't held to the same expectations.

      And it still doesn't answer my question to Cowboy about where Jesus said anything about premarital sex being wrong, which is the premise he used to shun his friends until they came around to his way of thinking.

      • 2 votes
      #3.23 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:59 PM EST
      Becky-2100114

      Katix,

      I don't just think the woman should hold out.....the men should to. You have to admit though, women function more on their emotions then men do. Sometimes men get clouded by their you know whats. lol My hubby ain't afraid to admit to that one! My cousin held out and so did his wife. They are learning together and now that they've been married a couple years and have their first child, their bond is TIGHT. That is a level of intimacy that only the two of them share with each other and no one else. That's pretty special. I have a lot of hurts in my past that I could have avoided if I listened to God and not our culture.

      Hiram,

      I agree with you whole hearted. I certainly don't want to send any kind of message that sin is ok. It's not and distances us from Christ. Don't get me wrong.....I hold myself VERY accountable. I have had to learn how to forgive myself though just as God has forgiven me. Sometimes that's hard to do. I think that as we grow in faith, so does our conviction. Like you said, we can recognize true believers by their fruits. The closer I get to God, the more I desire to honor Him through my obedience which I know is in my best interest. The stronger my faith becomes, the more I want to spread the Good News as I'm told to do. How can I be the most effective for Christ? By my obedience and thus........others will recognize me as a true believer and possibly come to believe themselves. :)

      • 3 votes
      #3.24 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 1:17 PM EST
      TruettCollins

      katrix -
      From Jesus words in Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.

      Fornications include sex without marriage.

      • 1 vote
      #3.25 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 3:02 PM EST
      TruettCollins

      katrix.......katrix......katrix - where did you go?

      • 1 vote
      #3.26 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 4:37 PM EST
      SW Missouri Mule

      TruettCollins, katrix is probably at work.

      • 3 votes
      #3.27 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 4:58 PM EST
      American for truth

      katrix: But where did Jesus say sex outside of marriage was wrong, other than adultery?

      How can you not apply your judgment to friend's who eat pork since that is still wrong?

      What are we doing now. Associating eating PORK with Adultery? First the Commandants where the Law for all to live by before the coming of the Birth of Jesus Christ. See. If we read the Bible as I believe you have you will notice that certain parts are not a UNIVERSAL LAW for all from the Ten Commandments. Now from Levitical Law it was given to Israel only and in it was the subject of clean and unclean meats. Where does it say You cannot eat PORK? Read 1Timothy4:1-5. For it is talking about seducing spirits. Teaching man laws and following that ordinance that was done away with. Also read the Vision given to Peter in Acts 9: and 10. There he was shownunclean meats. Jesus said, rise slay and eat. Peter call them unclean and He would not eat them. Jesus said Do not call what I have cleansed common our unclean. Yes He was speaking about Cornelius.

        #3.28 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 5:54 PM EST
        katrix

        From Jesus words in Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.

        Oh, so now we get into the fornications. Still nothing about sodomy, isn't that interesting? And Matthew never quoted Jesus, having been written well after his death. So we still don't know what Jesus said about sex outside of marriage. The Paulians have warped Christianity.

        And to equate an evil thought to an actual deed is just stupid. Would Jesus have been that stupid?

        Becky - by the way - good to see you again, Happy New Year, and we've missed you.

        • 3 votes
        #3.29 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 10:27 PM EST
        Becky-2100114

        Thanks Katrix - good to see you too! Happy New Year!

        I went nut-so over Christmas and turned into Martha Stewart. Guess I was trying to make up for last year. My husband finally said, "I don't mean to be a Grinch but there's enough Christmas in this house. I can't wear glitter." lol

        Hey Girl......this year's gonna be WAAAAAAY better!!!! Love ya! :)

        • 1 vote
        #3.30 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 11:36 PM EST
        katrix

        And yet I got no cookies? Thank goodness, I am still baking.

        Love ya too, and appreciate the balance we give to each other sometimes. And when we don't, we can still find other stuff to talk about.

        • 2 votes
        #3.31 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:03 AM EST
        Becky-2100114

        You make me think. Some times I'm SOOOO sure of myself and you catch my glitch. That's exactly what I'm looking for on here. I have learned so much from you.......you're one of my favs to run into. :)

        (you might like this one......I'm over on another article advocating the legalization of pot.) I bet you'd dig it. :) ooooooooooo......the many layers of Becky lol

          #3.32 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:09 AM EST
          katrix

          It's OK if you post one of your layers. We learn from each other. You're so sweet, Becky, and I have learned from you too. heh what an article that would be - the many layers of all of us!

          • 2 votes
          #3.33 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:18 AM EST
          Becky-2100114

          the many layers of all of us........i like that

          • 1 vote
          #3.34 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:43 AM EST
          TruettCollins

          katrixyou asked, I answered but now you want to change your tactic and claim he didn't say it....LOL typical of one who knows they are wrong. Matthew written within 40 years of Christ death by Matthew who walked with Christ. And you switch from pre-marital sex to sodomy....still dodging and spinning arn't ya.....

          • 1 vote
          #3.35 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 2:10 AM EST
          American for truth

          No katrix has eaten a cookie that has warped their thinking. They want words for everything the think we Christian say are wrong. They can not use the word SIN to see that it covers multitudes of things. Katrix. Keep reading and you will come across what you want to believe. That will be fine. I know you do not need approval from anyone so I just gave mine. You are welcome. Continue on. I too have learned a lot for them like katrix and I see where I am right where I need to be. Jesus is the TRUTH Teacher they just need to listen to him.

          Have a good day.

          • 1 vote
          #3.36 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:37 PM EST
          Reply
          lloyd-3730046

          Cowboygrandpa

          Now, I can see it.

          And I will stay with my comment in #2.

          • 1 vote
          Reply#4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:26 PM EST
          cowboygrandpa

          lloyd:

          Thanks.

          I can understand.

          • 1 vote
          #4.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:35 PM EST
          Reply
          American for truth

          We all do and that is why Paul warns us to keep Jesus alive in our lives.

          • 1 vote
          Reply#5 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:37 PM EST
          lib50

          I think the greater harm is letting this do harm to the relationship with your brother. I really believe the things we THINK are against the Bible are often not as important as how you treat your fellow man, the judgements made against others and our thoughts and actions against others. I think much if not most of the evangelical beliefs are the opposite of Jesus's message and meaning. I am not a fan of organized religion but I am very spiritual on a private level.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#6 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:02 PM EST
          lloyd-3730046

          lib50

          I like your comment in #6 and wholeheartedly agree with your words.

          • 2 votes
          #6.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:11 PM EST
          Reply
          lloyd-3730046

          MoCowgirl

          So if God allowed people to evolve from apes with only instincts to guide their survival, shouldn't Christians practice some kind of tolerance for people evolving in spiritual growth and spend their time guiding them very gently, and very tenderly instead of throwing them to the wolves?

          You have a talent for speaking clearly and with heart. I agree.

          There have been occasions in my life when I have found another's behavior beyond my tolerance and interest in accepting and I have removed them from my life. Perhaps this is where Cowboygrandpa is coming from.

          In the case he mentions, it seems to me that everyone gets hurt and no one wins, which is not very desirable in my view. Cowboygrandpa, as with the couple, have lost friendship and enjoyable companionship. Would Jesus like that?

          I submit also that the church suffers as well because two individuals are either rejected or coerced by the dogma.

          I am no biblical scholar, nor do I profess to be a Christian but I think somewhere in the bible it says to the effect that you should forgive another's shortcomings 70X 7 times or something.

          Cowboygrandpa- Thought about it a bit and decided to comment further.

          My heart breaks for them.

          This is why I respect your sincerity.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#7 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:08 PM EST
          cowboygrandpa

          lloyd:

          I appreciate your thoughtful comment. Yes I'm indeed hurt, so is my wife, and so are others in the church. So is the couple. Now if they claimed they weren't Christians, and were just looking for His Way. I'd say they can be our companions again no problem. But to have claimed Christ and then continue to live the same way as one always has, is not of Christ.

          I forgive people for what they do wrong against me all the time, I can't forgive them for what they do against Christ- meaning that I can forgive them, but they have to be forgiven by Him through repentance- He is my King.

          Another example. Lets say-this happened as well- you find out that a brother from the Church is stealing money from people. You go to him and confront him in a loving way, but he says to mind your own business. You go to the elders, and they speak to him and he says it is only business and to stay out of his business. They go to the pastor and he tells the guy to stop or leave the church. The guy tells the pastor that it is his business and to mind his own business.

          The guy ends up leaving the church and then is found out to be a con man bilking people out of their money. Would you want a guy like that running around saying he is a Christian and representing Christ ?? Of course not because he is a thief right ??

          Well the couple is a thief in their own way, they are stealing the sanctity of being married before living together as man and wife. It is not us they offend so much as it is Christ The Lord.

          • 2 votes
          #7.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:26 PM EST
          MoCowgirl-1193719

          It is not us they offend so much as it is Christ The Lord.

          Do you have reason to think that they haven't taken this into consideration?

          I have a dearly beloved cousin who is gay. She has been ostracized most of her life for it. She willingly sought Church "counseling" at one time. Although, we can talk about just about everything else, that is a subject that she doesn't. I do know the end result is that she doesn't attend church at all. She is spiritual, and I think that she is a "believer" that has been silenced by the "believers" around her who have told her that she is an abomination and Jesus does not and cannot ever "forgive" her unless she becomes someone that they can accept.

          I have never thought it wise to speak for an all knowing, all powerful being .... especially based on hearsay which has been passed down for thousands of years orally, written, re-written and edited by men we don't much of anything about except what they have chosen to tell us.

          If we obey the commandment of our heart to treat others with love/compassion then we rarely err ... and isn't that the explicit message of Jesus Christ that has survived and been passed down for the last two thousand years?

          We all have our own moral compass ....and we all set our own limits on how much tolerance we will accept, whether we admit it to ourselves or not. We will all choose or reject a religion based on what we believe ...not what it believes.

          lloyd,

          Thank you. I know of no other way to speak than from the heart. That is probably why I have scars from being attacked by people who will not tolerate questions or opinions that challenge their belief system.

          • 4 votes
          #7.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:12 PM EST
          cowboygrandpa

          MoCowgirl:

          First off let me say that I know that Christ is able to change peoples behaviors. I'm an example of that. Did I change overnight ?? Not hardly, but somethings did.

          I was not a pleasant example of a man living in Christ, in fact I was more of an example of a man living for the pleasures of the flesh. I will not go into the details as I do not wish to glamorize the sins I took pleasure in. Suffice it to say that women being together did not bother me at all. I thought myself to be no worse than the next person.

          I had asked for over twenty years to be changed from what I was, because I was foul in my own eyes, but I still enjoyed the pleasures. I wasn't ready to change, so although I believed in Christ, God, and The Holy Spirit, I also believed in cars, people, ... and the things of the world. I had a lot of enablers who kept telling me it was alright that God still loved me and I'd go to heaven.

          When I finally fell down and reached the end of myself, I found the beginning of Christ. I do not regret it, the only thing I regret is that it took me so long to finally fall down and admit I needed Him.

          I have promised myself I will never be an enabler who watches people struggle with their sin and tell them ot is alright in Christ. I love them and want them to be in Christ, not for my good. But because they seek it. If they didn't want it, I'd just keep praying for them in hopes that someday they would want it.

          I love them more than they know and also understand what they are going through. I also know what the reward they receive is when they come to Christ. That is why it is important to me.

          Peace.

          • 1 vote
          #7.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:36 PM EST
          lloyd-3730046

          MoCowgirl

          Your very welcome, many do not have the courage to speak from the heart and I welcome your thoughts.

          Scars..yeah. No shortage of those who fear to find or hear reality.

          • 2 votes
          #7.4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:53 PM EST
          Becky-2100114

          The Bible clearly tells us to judge not least ye be judged. It also tells us to share the Gospel and tell the Good News. What's the Good News? Is the Good News that I divorced my husband 6 years ago, reconciled and am now happily "shacked" up with him and our three children that are ours together? Or is the Good News that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and through Him I will be cleansed and be with God our Creator? Is the Good News that God is real and the Bible is the way? I don't want to sin because I don't want to dishonor God and I WANT to get closer to Him. Will I sin anyway? Of course I will, same as all of you. I'm not always kind spirited. Inflicting any kind of hurt on another person is a "sin" or a bad thing to do no matter what you call it and we're ALL guilty of at least that if nothing else. Who are we to judge anyone? We should guide and help each other to get close to Christ and further away from our doubts but we should NEVER weight our sins against our salvation. PRAISE GOD I believe and am forgiven. Praise God for Loving me and ONLY asking that I love Him back and believe in HIM! Jesus said to follow Him and make Him believable. How do we make him believable? By attempting not to sin. How do I know what is sin? The Bible helps us to define and see sin. Those who want to focus on sin seem to be missing what we are directed to do. If we're turning people away because they're feeling condemnation then we are doing something wrong. There is a difference between acceptance and tolerance. Love, love, love. God is Love.

            #7.5 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 10:21 PM EST
            Reply
            lloyd-3730046

            Cowboygrandpa

            It is a pleasure to converse with you. If I understand....

            The end result is that the behavior of these two is offensive to their stated beliefs, making them hypocrites and accepting this would put you in a position of compromising your beliefs?

            I tend to have little patience with dishonesty and hypocritical behavior. Perhaps, because I'm not very complex.. The couple, in my view, is causing more harm to themselves with lies. I tend to think the Christ is capable of accepting them for where they are spiritually, but perhaps they are not capable of accepting themselves.

            That's all well and good. As I've said before, we would not share the same beliefs, however, I think we share some of the same values and experiences in life.

            Peace

            • 3 votes
            Reply#8 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:02 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            Cowboygrandpa

            It is a pleasure to converse with you. If I understand....

            The end result is that the behavior of these two is offensive to their stated beliefs, making them hypocrites and accepting this would put you in a position of compromising your beliefs?

            Right on the bullseye !!

            Thank you lloyd. Peace to you as well my friend.

            I'm not a very complex person either. What ya see is what ya get. :~)) :~))

            • 4 votes
            #8.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:16 PM EST
            Reply
            SW Missouri Mule

            Does everybody sin?. No. If a person does not believe in a god, can what he does be a sin in his mind? Or only in the mind of the believers? If I was married and had relations with another man, that would be against my husband and family. If I murdered my neighbor that would be a wrong against his family and friends and the law. Without "salvation and/or damnation" there is no sin, only degrees of right and wrong according to what is in our hearts.

            • 5 votes
            Reply#9 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 5:11 PM EST
            American for truth

            I would not go that far and say that. See. Does it say we have to be a believer first to sin, No. We all are sinners and even if we do not want to lice for Jesus Christ we are still doing what is wrong against Gods word. The Ten Commandments should be a rule even if you do not believe.

            • 1 vote
            #9.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:21 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            SW Miss. Mule:

            Does everybody sin?. No. If a person does not believe in a god, can what he does be a sin in his mind?

            Well that is what non believers cling to. If I don't believe that fire is hot will it still burn me if I touch it ?? Of course it will. If I don't believe that taking drugs is bad for me will it still affect me in a harmful way ?? Yeah, it still has the same effects although I may deny them and think I'm fine. You know like Charlie Sheen ??

            But of course I understand that not everybody thinks there is sin.

            • 1 vote
            #9.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:51 PM EST
            SW Missouri Mule

            I can not call it sin if I do not believe in god. To me it would be right or wrong. Only you, as a believer, can call it sin. However, you can not judge me as only your god can judge. You also can't compare physical pain, being burned, to sin and eternal judgement. If I do something to harm someone here on Earth and it is against the law I will be judged by the law. If I do something deliberate to hurt someone's feelings or trust or to break a bond, I will be judged by that person and must make atonement there. You can call it sin because you believe in the 10 commandments. I believe in treating people with respect as in the new covenant (love one another and I have loved you) and I fear no eternal consequences or rewards. My actions here on Earth while I am alive are more important than some threat of eternal damnation or whatever...

            • 2 votes
            #9.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 9:28 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            SW Miss. Mule:

            I do not want to judge you at all. That is part of what I said in the article above. I'm allowed to make observations just like anyone else including non-believers. It is not judging it is a statement of beliefs.

            You are welcome to believe that there is only right and wrong and degrees of that. I too used to think that.

            I hope you have a wonderful life and and a Happy New Year.

            • 1 vote
            #9.4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 10:21 PM EST
            SW Missouri Mule

            you can call me Mule.

            Happy New Year to you, cowboygrandpa.

            • 2 votes
            #9.5 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:14 PM EST
            Reply
            clearcache

            I understand why you feel as you do. I also do not share your exact beliefs, but feel for your struggle. I'm sure you're aware there are many statements on sin throughout the Bible - 1st Corinthians doesn't have the market on sin cornered, does it? ;)

            I find Romans 8:31-39 particularly helpful. Especially this:

            Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? ... I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

            God's grace is always with your brother - whether he is aware of it or not, God would never turn his back on him. No height nor depth nor power nor anything in all creation can separate him from the love of God. That's a pretty big statement, isn't it? No height nor depth nor power nor anything in all creation. Should this separate him from the love of his brother? If God can forgive, can his brother forgive as well?

            Something to think about.

            • 1 vote
            Reply#10 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 5:28 PM EST
            American for truth

            We as Christians should forgive. We are not the Judge of them who do sin Jesus is. In saying this Read Ezekiel 33. The subject is sin being forgiven and becoming righteous, God will not recognize the sin. However if He turns from His righteousness and sins again his righteousness will not be remember. Can one be separated from God once saved? I say yes.

            • 2 votes
            #10.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:26 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            I've forgiven him already, I've turned it over to God to handle. The issue as I see it is that my brother in Christ hasn't turned it over to God yet so he is still struggling in the flesh.

            When I was younger I did some very stupid and foolish things they cost me more than you know. When I finally turned to Christ I was forgiven, I still suufered for what I did in the flesh and continue to pay for the lunacy still today with a broken heart towards those I hurt.

            Grace is not to be used to continue sinning. It the Grace God gives us to turn from our sin to Him and repent in Him and be changed into the New Creation through Jesus Christ.

            To continue on in sin is to reject the Grace of God and to prefer the pleasure of the sin. My heart breaks for them because the sin brings so much pain in the later years.

            Peace.

            • 2 votes
            #10.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:44 PM EST
            clearcache

            Understood. I don't think you and I will see eye to eye on this and I don't expect you to change your beliefs. One thing to consider, though, is that you say you've turned it over to God and that you've forgiven him, but also that you've rebuked him and no longer share meals with him.

            If he is having a tough time - and, co-habitation issue aside, it sounds like he is - it is a time when you may wish to consider that he needs more of you in his life, not less. He probably has a lot of things above and beyond marriage to get sorted out, and it's probably not a good idea for him to rush into marriage until he is on stable ground. A regular job is a start, but he needs a strong support network to continue his growth.

            • 5 votes
            #10.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 9:31 PM EST
            Reply
            RaymondB

            I would suggest rather than try to change the religion you are in, in order to get them to follow the teachings of Christ and the rest of the truths found in the christian Greek scriptures, I think it would be to your advantage to find the one that is following Christ leadership. The one example that you gave was where Paul was telling those Christians elders in the Corinthian congregation to remove or dis-fellowship the one who had committed his act of fornication in order to protect the rest of the congregation. Use this as a starting point then. Find a Church that obeys this command today, find the church or group of people that are following the teaching of Jesus and then I believe you will have found his people. You will not be able to make a group of people follow his teachings. I personally believe that he has one group of people out there. A group that he has gathered and has instructed and who are following his will.

            • 1 vote
            Reply#11 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 6:03 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            RaymondB:

            I don't want a legalistic church where people put on an act to be accepted.

            The key to me is the more people who don't follow the teachings of Christ in a gathering of the saints the less fellowship has with Real Christians who Love the Way of The Lord over their own fleshly ways.

            • 1 vote
            #11.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 9:08 PM EST
            Reply
            lost in America-3937007

            CG, I admire your commitment to the Word of God in this matter. The Pastor and Elders in my church understand, teach and practice this concept. It hurts us all to bring up these matters to professed Christians, but it is necessary to present ourselves to the world as followers of Christ.

            I was reading the other day about the Southern Baptists thinking about changing their name because several well known people who were affiliated with Southern Baptist Convention had been involved in some very unchristian behaviors and brought dishonor to the name Southern Baptist. I believe this could have been avoided if they had publicly seperated themselves from those members. But so many of us are afraid of offending and being called close minded and bigoted that we do not speak up in defense of God's laws.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#12 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:07 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            lost in America:

            Thanks.

            It is never easy to bring things up that are bringing shame to people ya love. Even my own wife is an enabler when it comes to people dying in their sins but claiming to be in Christ. She thinks that to tell someone that to continue to live in the world way they are living is being judgemental.

            People can't understand how hurtful it is to have to tell friends that they are not living as they said they would in Christ. It is not legalism in that we are not saying that they have to live the way we say in order to be a member of the church. We are saying you came forward professed Christ as your Lord and Savior, you chose to be baptised and be born again in Christ. Live it.

            Of course I sin as does eveyone else. The difference is I don't live in the sin day in and day out. I see my sins and repent, if a brother comes to me and says hey I've noticed you've been doing this. I look to see if I have and ask my wife, and others if I have. If I'm guilty I repent of it and thank the brother for looking out for me, if not I'll approach him with the others I've spoken to and allow them to say what they've seen of me. So that we can find out what is going on, because we want no dissent between brothers and sisters.

            Peace.

            • 1 vote
            #12.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:25 PM EST
            Reply
            Grisham

            I found the article interesting, CG. You know I'm not a believer so I struggle to understand sometimes how or why believers make some of the decisions they make. Your column is very good for that so I thank you.

            I would not have made the decision you made. However, you made it for a reason that doesn't exist for me. Your decision does show courage and a willingness to walk the walk so to speak.

            It also makes me glad that I don't have to consider taking such action aganst a good friend. *wink*

            Keep on writing, CG!

            • 4 votes
            Reply#13 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 10:03 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            Thanks Grisham.

            It is not easy to tell friends that things are not right, and that we have to make amends or part ways until the amends are made.

            My Christian friends tell me that I allow myself to defend the rights of homosexuals, yet I stand against them when they do something wrong of a sexual nature. I tell them that the homosexuals I speak about do not claim to be Christians. Or I would have the same talk with them.

            It is not about the behavior so much as it is about the One they claim to follow.

            Just the way I se it.

            • 2 votes
            #13.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 10:12 PM EST
            clearcache

            Thanks for bringing that up, CG -- I meant to ask you about that ... do you really think there is a Christian denomination or even a congregation that walks in the way of the Lord 100% of the time, in all ways, without error? I actually don't believe that's possible ... and a strict reading of the scripture tells us that all sins are equal.

            I understand from your perspective there is probably a difference between making a decision to continue "living in sin" and a fleeting moment of lust, or whatever else you may consider to be a sin, but - at least according to James - God probably doesn't distinguish between the two.

            • 2 votes
            #13.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:22 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            clearache:

            I know of no person who is doing right 100% of the time. Including myself. I have to stop and judge myself and listen to people daily so that I do not blind myself with a self righteous cloak.

            I pray, and ask the Holy Spirit to fill me and give me discernment so that I will not grieve Him. I pray before ever approaching a person about their behavior. I consult with other brothers to see if it is just something personal I don't like about the person, or if the person reminds me of me and I'm seeing my sin in them.

            It is not something I take lightly. Because I have to remember that Jesus Christ died for their sins and if He has forgiven them who am I to bring them up. But He also said not to continue in ones sins.

            It is not easy.

            • 1 vote
            #13.3 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 12:28 AM EST
            clearcache

            Best of luck, CG.

            • 2 votes
            #13.4 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 11:15 AM EST
            Reply
            jeremy-17

            COWBOYGRANDPA

            Interesting article. You and I differ in beliefs. In regards to your article; everybody sins. Regardless of their beliefs we do. One of the biggest issues is that with all the different religions it's hard to draw the line. What is a sin in one religion may be praised in another.

            To use your example, you rebuked a friend because they are living together but not married. Do you do the same for those "brothers" and "sisters" who are divorced? I'm only asking because day after day we read about how homosexuality is a sin yet there is a 50% divorce rate. My point in this is there are a significant number of people who will stand up and fight against one sin while others go by the wayside.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#14 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 10:59 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            jeremy:

            I'm a once divorced man myself. Yes I rebuke myself, and I suffer for the sorows I caused. I've also prayed for forgiveness and asked the person I'm divorced from to forgive me, as I've forgiven her.

            I was divorced while I had turned my back on the Lord and was living a life full of the fleshly things that bring a season of pleasure and lifetime of regrets. It was because of my desires of the flesh and my failure to come to The Lord that I got divorced.

            The person who did that is dead, and I'm a New Creation in Jesus Christ. That is part of why I believe so strongly and follow it so carefully because I know the results of not following it, and allowing others to see one behave in such a manner. Before that I had taught Sunday School. Yes I know the reasons, and yes if a couple is getting divorced because of adultery, I will rebuke the adulterer and ask him to repent.

            Not because I think I'm better than them, but because I know what will happen and it is not good.

            • 1 vote
            #14.1 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 12:20 AM EST
            MacInsanity

            My point in this is there are a significant number of people who will stand up and fight against one sin while others go by the wayside.

            I was just talking to my wife about this a few days ago. There is a lot of hypocrisy that goes on. Let's just hope that we can learn to be as gentle with other sinners as we would like them to be with us when we sin.

            • 2 votes
            #14.2 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 2:46 AM EST
            jeremy-17

            Not because I think I'm better than them, but because I know what will happen and it is not good.

            I wasn't implying that you may think you are better than anybody else. If it seemed like that I apologise.

            I only ask because, as I said, there are so many that fight against one sin yet another gets no mention. The biggest right now is the same sex marriage battle that is ongoing while others like divorce and adultury go without half the mention.

            We may differ in beliefs but I think we agree that the hypocracy that is going on has gone to far. Thank you for your point of view.

            • 1 vote
            #14.3 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:33 PM EST
            Reply
            Hiram-1381633

            CG

            You are man of your word and man that sows the integrity that is rare in today's world even among Christians. It is easy to talk the talk but a far harder thing to walk the walk. We are going some of these types of trial at our church. There are those that claim the name of Christ yet promote division. Smiling and shake your hand with the right and stirring the pot and stabbing you with the left. Our pastor in wisdom has decide that with the new year there will be a new beginning and has called the leaders of which I am to task in living lives of truth. I feel for you and will pray for you and your brother. I really like what Charles Spurgeon said

            Every Sunday morning some folks take out their godliness and touch it up, while
            they are turning the brush round their best hat. Many women, after a fashion, put on
            the fear of God with their new bonnet. When the Sunday is over, and their best
            things are put away, they have also put away their best thoughts and their best
            behavior. We must have a seven-days’ religion, or else we have none at all.
            Periodical godliness is perpetual hypocrisy

            H

            • 2 votes
            Reply#15 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 11:26 PM EST
            cowboygrandpa

            Hiram:

            Thank you.

            I too have fallen and thank God that there was One there to lift me up and say, hey I'm your friend, but if you are going to continue to behave like this, I can't have anything to do with you. You claim the Lord but walk with the deceit of the devil.

            I remember thinking that all the fleshly things never satisfy me for very long and then I want more. Since I have drank of Him I'm satisified and look for no other to bring the joy in my life. Less of me and more of Him is what I desire. The more I have of Him the less the things of this world mean to me. They are just tools to be used for Him and His Glory as I see it.

            I spoke to my friend today and he and his girlfriend have decided they are getting married next month. They want me to be the best man and my wife to be the maid of honor. They thanked me for standing strong in the Lord and not enabling them to backslide.

            He works as He works and we are just the tools He uses. If we refuse to do His work, there is another who will do it. I want to be one of the ones He uses and can depend upon.

            As my friend/brother in The Lord said " I know someone who won't lie to me and allow me to go to hell, because he truly loves me in Christ. True friends are hard to find, most wouldn't care because they'd be afraid of hurting my feelings or losing a friendship."

            The way I see it is, if I have to allow one who claims to be in Christ to live in sin around me in order for them to be my friend. They weren't my friend in the first place, because they should know just as I know, that God comes first. I have to Honor Him first.

            Peace my friend.

            I hope your Pastor and you succeed in having brothers and sisters who can be accountable to each other, and be able to reach out and say they need help. I'll never refuse to help someone as long as they are willing to keep trying.

            • 1 vote
            #15.1 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 2:01 AM EST
            Reply
            TruettCollins

            Yes

            • 1 vote
            Reply#16 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 12:30 AM EST
            KElane

            Do we all sin? Yes.

            Most everyone knows the scripture that says, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." [Romans 3:23]

            Would this include newborns? Yes it would.

            The best way to understand sin is to find the Greek and Hebrew's definitions. The original words [Heb. Chattath; Gr. hamartia] come from the verb in both languages that means miss, as in missing the target. We are all born imperfect, hence a baby and other innocent people die because of it.

            Soon, though, sin and death will be done away with and all those in the memorial tombs will be resurrected--John 5:28, 29. Great promises. 1 Corinthians 15:26; Revelations 21:4.

            • 1 vote
            Reply#17 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:13 PM EST
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