The Way

:-)!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0wfu3tOrtQ

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I was looking for that passage the other day, when someone told me that the Bible did not teach equality of all people. I sure would appreciate it if you drop me a note when you find it, I'll do the same. I can't get the wording right for the bible gateway search.

Thank you Truett and CG, I don't know how I missed that post.

Amen TruettCollins, no doubt that is the specific Scripture cowboygrandpa was seeking...always good to have a second witness based on the written word! I love it!

It is one of my favorites....

Please don't misinterpret me. This is not a slam on whatever sect of Christianity you may belong to. I respect many of the teachings of Jesus, but John 14:6 is such a conundrum to me, because of its exclusive, Calvinistic traditional interpretation, that it's one of those passages that I believe must've been transcribed incorrectly.

Actually, there is no need to interpret John 14:6 anyway other than what it says, in this case, there is no mistranslation, it says what it means and from my understanding it means exactly what it says? When rightly divided based on that which is written John 14:6 supports what is shared in other Scriptures of the Holy Bible.

It is not the teachings but Jesus Christ Himself that one must accept, and when one believes Him, they will then also believe what He says. it would be unfair if Christ did not foretell this because as is written, "He has foretold us all things". It is the truth, one must believe/accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour in order to be with Him forever and ever throughout eternity.

Stands to reason, don't you think, if one doesn't believe/love Him, they've made their choice that they do not want to be with Him throughout eternity? All John 14:6 is doing is making it clear that He's not going to make anyone choose Him, and that it is our choice to be with Him or be without Him now and throughout eternity, and there is no other way to be in the eternity without Him.

To simplify he is simply saying that he is the one who will pay the price for our transgressions, we either accept that payment or reject it and pay it ourselves.

It is not the teachings but Jesus Christ Himself that one must accept

Am I interpreting your statement correctly?

It is NOT the teachings....(meaning: it doesn't matter if you live your life based upon the numerous sermons Jesus gave, the parables in the four books of the Gospels, or any other idea or quote that may have been attributed to Jesus)

....but Jesus Christ Himself that one must accept (meaning: strict idol worship without any accountability or true understanding for what that idol stands for is perfectly acceptable as long as it's done in His name.)

Is that what I'm hearing?

Am I interpreting your statement correctly?

No.

My entire sentence/comment as follows:

It is not the teachings but Jesus Christ Himself that one must accept, and when one believes Him, they will then also believe what He says.

One must first accept Jesus Christ for who He is before they can accept/believe what He has to say.

PeaceBlessing thanks for your response.

One must first accept Jesus Christ for who He is before they can accept/believe what He has to say.

What if I have a different definition of "who He is". You may believe he is your personal savior and Lord and Son of God. I may believe that he was a very intellegent man with a lot of good things to say about how to live one's existance on Earth and that He is divine in the sense that all of us are divine.

What if I cannot accept Jesus Christ for "who He is" based upon your interpretation. Since this "acceptance" comes first (your presumption), then I can only receive the "real" meaning behind his message once I've accepted him. I cannot study Jesus' works, or examine his deeds, or read his words first, because I won't be able to understand them until I've accepted Jesus as my savior? Isn't that putting the cart before the horse?

I guess I have a hard time having blind faith first without knowing what I'm getting into. I won't reveal my denomination, but you might be able to guess it. It took me a while to find the right one for a person like me who has a really hard time with authority figures. Don't get me wrong, I would like to believe the promise of eternal life that Jesus has talked about, who wouldn't? But, how can you find fault with someone who would prefer to understand the message first, before they devote themselves to Jesus?

....and CowboyGrandma, thanks for your response as well.

I wasn't saying that Christians in general all want to go out an slaughter anyone who doesn't believe in their particular faith. But a cursory understanding of The Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition, and a basic understanding of religious persecution throughout history does unveil countless times where slaughtering of groups of people were easily justified by numerous sects of the Christian Church and even the Vatican. What do you think a believer in Jesus would do if he found himself in the position of having to choose between killing a mortal unbeliever and saving his own soul. Would sparing the unbeliever actually be the right choice if he knew he would be tortured by his brethren in the church for not carrying out the deed?

His perfection is imputed to me so I have Him appear with me. So when God looks He sees the perfection of His Son and not my flaws.

Maybe it's just me, but this sounds like you're "hiding" behind the veil of Jesus. I understand that we're all sinners and Jesus died for our sins and all of that, but I didn't realize that when we accept Jesus, that God will not see us for who we are, but will instead see Jesus who is perfect. That just sounds like you're using Jesus as a mask so that God won't see who you are.

There is life in Him and death without Him. He gives all people the choice. Those who choose to be without Him can still attempt to be judged by the Law. But they are judged on a scale of perfection.

I could analyze this paragraph to death, but the only thing that I'll mention is this: Why do you think an "unbeliever" would choose not to believe. If the promise of Jesus is so alluring, why would anyone in their right mind deny Him? And tell me if I'm interpreting this correctly...we can still get to heaven with our inperfections if we believe in Jesus, but if we don't believe in Jesus, we can still get to heaven, but only if we're judged to be perfect? That to me makes it seem impossible for a person born into a culture where Christianity isn't dominant....and gives a green light to anyone with a Jesus tattoo on his forehead.

Looking forward to your responses. Thanks again. Peace....

Hi Spike,

PeaceBlessing thanks for your response.

You're welcome.

What if I have a different definition of "who He is". You may believe he is your personal savior and Lord and Son of God.

I simply accept Him to be that which He claims to be. Yes, it is by faith, but that's okay with me. For me accepting by faith now that Jesus Christ is who He claims to be isn't going to change anything from my perspective when all is said and done? Meaning, if there is no God,(even though I believe there is) I will not know this for sure according to what is written until I die in flesh or if still alive in flesh, I will know for sure at the time He returns as He has claimed He will do...I simply believe what He says in His written word and thereby I have no concern living my life now in the flesh by faith until one or the other occurs? I already know half of what He claims is true which is that my flesh will die, how and when, I do not know?

I may believe that he was a very intellegent man with a lot of good things to say about how to live one's existance on Earth and that He is divine in the sense that all of us are divine.

How you choose to see Jesus Christ is none of my business as long as you do not use it to get into my business. Our disagreeing is really no big deal from my perspective as neither of us have all the answers which basically puts us in the same boat...I tend to look to what we have in common and strive to get along if it be possible based on those things?

I guess I have a hard time having blind faith first without knowing what I'm getting into.

I do not consider my faith blind, because again I simply accept that which God shares in His written word which does let me know exactly what to expect and what I believe I am "getting into" which is to be with God forever and ever in the eternity. If my belief, my trust, my love and my faith in God cause me to seek to do that which is right in this "flesh" period of time according to God's will as instructed in His written word...right is still right and good is still good no matter the reason/motivation and one could have no better neighbor then me, LOL!

I won't reveal my denomination, but you might be able to guess it. It took me a while to find the right one for a person like me who has a really hard time with authority figures. Don't get me wrong, I would like to believe the promise of eternal life that Jesus has talked about, who wouldn't? But, how can you find fault with someone who would prefer to understand the message first, before they devote themselves to Jesus?

I am not of any denomination and do not keep track of the many that are in the world, so I apologize as I am unable to "guess it" where you are concerned? I do not find fault with anyone who are doing their best to seek out their own path in life rather it be faith or without faith, it is an individual choice.

What if I cannot accept Jesus Christ for "who He is" based upon your interpretation.

I do not accept Jesus Christ based on "my" interpretation, again I do believe in God and I do accept what I believe is true based on His instructions as is written. Now, I must be honest and admit, I do not recall a time that I did not believe in God, but, on the other hand, I spent a many a years not seeking out any wisdom, knowledge and understanding from God, and the fact that I made that first step to seek Him out has made a huge difference in my life and has only strengthen my belief, and thereby has strengthen my desire to do that which is pleasing to Him which is to just love Him, all else just falls in place from my perspective.

Since this "acceptance" comes first (your presumption), then I can only receive the "real" meaning behind his message once I've accepted him. I cannot study Jesus works, or examine his deeds, or read his words first, because I won't be able to understand them until I've accepted Jesus as my savior? Isn't that putting the cart before the horse?

I see where you are coming from, but that is not where I took you, LOL. God gives instructions on what one must do, I simply believe what He says and act accordingly. I do not believe doing that which God instructs is "putting the cart before the horse".

Let's say you came across a letter and in this letter, the author, tells you all about yourself but breaks it down into three distinct periods of time, the you before, the you now, and the you that is to come, and say you don't remember the you before, but the you now is spot on, and you only know what the letter says about the you that is to come. You have never met the author of this letter, but everything they say about the you now in this letter is true; would you then choose to ignore what is said about the you before due to lack of memory, and the you that is yet to come due to it not happening yet or would you consider that since the author of the letter has written nothing but the truth in the letter about the you now, that they are also telling you the entire truth about you even that which you do not remember and the fact that not all about the you that is to come has come to pass yet? For me, it made that walk by faith thing acceptable, LOL.

It gave me the desire to want to understand and thereby seek out wisdom, knowledge and understanding from my study/reading of the Holy Bible "the letter"; however, until I made the effort to read the letter, I didn't realize that it was written to me and that I can apply it to myself/my life..."whosoever" is all inclusive. For me starting from where I was, was a good thing, others can start from where ever they are if that is what they choose to do?

I haven't seen the author of the letter, but He tells me in His letter that He loves me, and I feel His love kind of like I feel the love from my daughter, although I can't see the author of the letter like I can see my daughter, I still feel the love from both and therefore I respond accordingly to the love I feel, meaning I return their love with my "works" my "actions" and I am rewarded in kind from them both. My daughter rewards me by doing that which is pleasing to me (any parent can feel the joy from having a loving child), I believe God rewards me with the gift of having a daughter that chooses to do that which is pleasing to me, which is just to love me as I love her. When things aren't perfect, He instructs me in "His letter" on patience, discipline, humility, and longsuffering with the wisdom, knowledge and understanding that He will not forsake me, and what I can say with all sincerity is so far, so good!

Thank you for asking Spike, sorry if it is too much of a response!

Thanks for the response, PeaceBlessing. I'm sure we could both discuss theology all week until we are both talking in circles and questioning whether or not Jesus is the Son of God or not until we've futilely proven why this issue has been a hot topic of debate for many millennium, but.....

...getting back to the idea that was presented by CowboyGrandma in this thread, I believe that it would be an interesting idea to attempt to separate one's religion from politics. That is what she was suggesting right?

That is part of the reason I have so much animosity for religious groups that practice politics and fleshy ways while claiming to be of Christ.

But, yet it seems to me as if it's the religious groups that are banging on the door of politics with the claim that they are not being included....or even persecuted for their beliefs, and running roughshod over the traditions of the nation. U.S. politics in-particular is rather amusing. Reasonable folks cannot even agree on basic definitions of stuff that taught in a 9th grade civics class. Separation of Church and State; Whether or not this is "Christian Nation"; Whether or not the "Founding Fathers" were Christians. Whether or not the Constitution is a Christian document; etc, etc, etc,.

My in-laws who are in their 70's and grew up in the 1950's and were Republicans for most of their lives, have stated to me that the current trend of extreme religious groups injecting their radical agendas into American politics, really has them frightened about the future of our country. The ideas they seem to be proposing would've never seen the light of day in the 1950's. And I tend to agree with them.

Me, personally, I like the idea of a secular nation that allows broad freedom of religious expression and is not hostile toward religious groups, but does set boundaries that do not allow the infiltration of religious special interests into the decision making processes of running a country as complex as the United States. We should be allowed to celebrate our heritage, but with the realization that the intent of the founding fathers was NOT to establish a Christian nation, but to be a place where religions from all over the planet can freely express their religion.